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grain-and-field
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04 Oct 2008, 12:39 pm

people dont hate america more than they hate......traffic lights.



Dox47
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04 Oct 2008, 1:12 pm

ascan wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Look at what I bolded in your post, this is pretty typical of what I'm hearing from people that don't live here. People who have never set foot in this country will say things like what you just did, then in the same breath take some potshots at me that I must have a distorted world view as an American. Doe is not occur that being a non-American can also lead to a distorted world view?

But I don't need to set foot in your country. I can read all I want about it, and get real-time comment from your citizens using the internet, every day. I don't doubt that all democratic nations could be criticised with regard to those points I made, to greater or lesser extent. The salient point is that your democracy is the most powerful and influential in the world, and so its citizens are the ones who hold sway over the fortunes of tens of millions of non-US citizens. That is something I have a problem justifying in my own mind as being satisfactory, unless it's on the basis of a lesser of evils.


So I can count on your support the next time someone here tells me I couldn't possible understand their point of view because I've never lived in or traveled to their country? I can't say I've really heard it from you specifically, but some people that post in this forum have this really wild view of what day to day life in America is like. I get the impression that some of them truly think that there are brow-beating Christians everywhere, that indiscriminate gunfire rattles the streets, that the only place to shop is Wal*Mart, etc. That is the danger of preconceived notions and a source of information like the net, it's very easy to find information supporting whatever point of view you want, regardless of whether or not it's true, look at our infestation of conspiracy theorists here and in News and Current Events.

Again, I bolded something that I thought was particularly relevant, because I think it directly supports my contention that envy is a strong force in anti-Americanism. We are powerful and influential simply by existing, when we put our minds to it, which we have, we become powerful indeed. Every country seeks power and influence, our crime is that we have been wildly successful. Again, it's cool to root for the underdog and hate the powerful, but when given the choice most people will not opt for being that underdog. I don't think anyone really wants us to go back to isolationism, even if it was really an option these days, everyone's economies are too linked.


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04 Oct 2008, 4:17 pm

lelia wrote:
pbcoll: I'd like to know which countries in Africa like France better than the US. In the countries I've been in, Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, France is despised and the US loved or at least seen as a much lesser evil. And President Bush is adored in Tanzania, Rwanda etc. All the other nations talked and held banquets; Bush actually delivered aid that made a difference. Mosquito nets by the millions are made in Tanzania now to be distributed to all of Africa, providing many jobs for Tanzanians and better health all around.
The aid that most countries give (including the US) is destructive and/or useless. Every African I talked to wanted the UN to go home. I wish its home was Geneva or the middle of Australia.
Read Lords Of Poverty sometime.
Are we hated? Sure. Have the number of people applying to be immigrants lessened? No. Hmm.


I meant the governments rather than the people, sorry for not being clear. My experience too is that ordinary Africans despise France and prefer Britain and the US.


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LePetitPrince
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04 Oct 2008, 6:05 pm

Can't hate them because my people are not better than them.



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04 Oct 2008, 6:40 pm

Kilroy wrote:
I would rather die then live in america, america preaches intolerance, hatred and slander to other faiths and cultures


It's really not that bad.


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04 Oct 2008, 7:17 pm

America is a lovely place, for the most part. I hope to go there again soon. The people are friendly, things are functional, its safe to spend your money without fear of theft or deception. The water is clean and hospitals are and emergency services are pervasive.

If you can measure a society by its ease of life, by the safety of the inhabitants, their overall health, access to food and shelter, then America might not be the best, but its far from the worst. What more do you need from day to day? Everyday?


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Synth
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04 Oct 2008, 8:39 pm

The kind of people I can't stand in america are those who believe everything the government tells them, and believe "we are the best in the world". I can't stand it. We are definetly not the best in the world, and are among one of the most ignorent countries out there. We really don't have very much to brag about, except that our technologies often match that of Russias.
but but... we have... freedom! durrr.... LOL



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04 Oct 2008, 9:04 pm

Synth wrote:
The kind of people I can't stand in america are those who believe everything the government tells them, and believe "we are the best in the world". I can't stand it. We are definetly not the best in the world, and are among one of the most ignorent countries out there. We really don't have very much to brag about, except that our technologies often match that of Russias.
but but... we have... freedom! durrr.... LOL


See, America bashing is so cool that even Americans are doing it! You can tell it was a real American that posted by all of the spelling and punctuation errors, must be a product of our shameful education system...


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Synth
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04 Oct 2008, 9:11 pm

Dox47 wrote:
You can tell it was a real American that posted by all of the spelling and punctuation errors, must be a product of our shameful education system...

REALLY? I never knew 8O
jk haha



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04 Oct 2008, 9:34 pm

pbcoll wrote:
I meant the governments rather than the people, sorry for not being clear. My experience too is that ordinary Africans despise France and prefer Britain and the US.


That would make sense, I'm not an expert on the subject, but I would think France's colonial legacy would outweigh any humanitarian aide as far as swaying opinions in Africa. I mean Algeria wasn't that long ago, and that was bloody and nasty on both sides, France was involved in all sorts of shadiness all over that continent.


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twoshots
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04 Oct 2008, 10:01 pm

Intriguingly, practically everyone I deal with has nasty things to say about Americans. And everything I read too. It seems odd that so much of America hates on Americans so much of the time. These "real" Americans apparently live under logs and in dank caves in the Red States, and only come out to vote for Bush, beat up gays, bomb Arabs, burn fossil fuels, and force their religion on others.


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04 Oct 2008, 11:57 pm

America is going to Hell thanks to the Bush administration. How Bush got elected again blows my mind! :evil:

I don't think Bush is as stupid as everyone thinks he is. I think it is just an act to hide the fact that he really doesn't give two sh**s about the country. He just wants to fill his own pockets. :evil:

As for the rest of the country, I love the land as in geography of America. But America's ideals are foolish. I really can't blame anyone for hating this country, I'm not fond of it myself. How can you love a country that throws people to the side because they don't have medical insurance (which should not exist in the first place) and can't pay for a hospital visit?

Our government has said that free healthcare is communism. If that is true, then I'll paint my face red because I'm all for it.

Well, once the government sees this post, you'll never see me again. Bye bye! :salut:


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Dox47
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05 Oct 2008, 1:30 am

Social_Fantom wrote:
Well, once the government sees this post, you'll never see me again. Bye bye! :salut:


You don't live in China...


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Synth
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05 Oct 2008, 4:31 am

Haha dox...
fantom you say it blows your mind that bush got elected, it doesn't for me. Hardly anyone votes anymore and most who do aren't smart enough to know what they're doing, which explains perfectly how it happened.
Oh by the way, although most of us can't afford that, illegal MEXICANS can, in fact, they get all healthcare for free. Isn't that just dandy :?



monty
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05 Oct 2008, 10:43 am

Synth wrote:
Haha dox...
fantom you say it blows your mind that bush got elected, it doesn't for me. Hardly anyone votes anymore and most who do aren't smart enough to know what they're doing, which explains perfectly how it happened.
Oh by the way, although most of us can't afford that, illegal MEXICANS can, in fact, they get all healthcare for free. Isn't that just dandy :?


The problem is not that illegal workers get too much health care - it is that legal residents don't get enough. If all the illegals disappeared tonight, tomorrow would be just as bad for the uninsured and under-insured Americans. Except there would be no scapegoats to blame.

Illegal immigrants don't get all the healthcare they want for free - on average, California spends about $450 per illegal per year. Most illegals go without health care entirely, and end up in the emergency room when they get pneumonia or they get run over by a truck or cut off a finger while doing your landscaping. The average small group health plan in the US costs $3700 per person per year, and it includes a lot more. The emphasis should be on improving the system for Americans - the illegal argument is a red herring designed to distract people.



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05 Oct 2008, 11:06 am

In the state I lived in before they got free everything, I even witnessed it with my own eyes. The point is, that they get treated nicely and the people who live here legally have to live the hard life.