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TallyMan
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24 Jan 2009, 6:16 am

Image


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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anna-banana
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24 Jan 2009, 6:33 am

TallyMan wrote:
Image


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


LOL! if it wasn't for the beard and the horns this is exactly what I look like right now 8O


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TallyMan
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24 Jan 2009, 7:11 am

anna-banana wrote:
LOL! if it wasn't for the beard and the horns this is exactly what I look like right now 8O


<knock at the door> Good morning madame, and what a wonderful morning God has brought us today. Why do you think there is so much misery in the world?
<notices man is in smart suit and reaching into a briefcase for a brochure>
<SLAM!>
Hello? Hello? Hello?


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DeaconBlues
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24 Jan 2009, 2:07 pm

TallyMan wrote:
<knock at the door> Good morning madame, and what a wonderful morning God has brought us today. Why do you think there is so much misery in the world?

"I figure it has something to do with folks who go knocking on other people's doors first thing in the fracking morning, selling their religion door-to-door like so much Amway." <slam>


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Saerain
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24 Jan 2009, 8:13 pm

Tickling strip. I remember that as a child I used to answer that question with, 'No. Sounds are what we hear when vibrations reach our tympanic membranes. If a vibration isn't heard, it's not a sound.'

What people seemed to more readily understand is that a sight is not a sight unless it is seen. Otherwise, it is light. If I asked them to apply the same logic to sound, they usually got it.

I found it interesting, though, that they had no problem with understanding that sight is light, yet seemed thrown by the notion that sound is vibration. There was something counterintuitive about it for them. I don't know if they thought their ears were picking up telepathic signals or what.


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Awesomelyglorious
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24 Jan 2009, 9:22 pm

Saerain wrote:
I found it interesting, though, that they had no problem with understanding that sight is light, yet seemed thrown by the notion that sound is vibration. There was something counterintuitive about it for them. I don't know if they thought their ears were picking up telepathic signals or what.

There are different definitions of sound. I mean, hearing is the analog of sight in most people's minds, so the question they seem to have is more analogous to whether or not there can be unseen light, yet, because sound is considered less constant than light is, it is more puzzling, as hearing is the only sense that seems defined by unusual stimulus, while smells, touch, taste, and seeing seem to be more matters of perceiving an always existent trait of objects. This fact is why people find it odd that color is a reflection rather than a trait of an object, that tastes can be distorted by smells, and that cold sensations are relative to other temperature sensations.

At least, that is all my speculation on this. Perhaps I am being too kind to the people you used to know. :)



Saerain
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24 Jan 2009, 9:36 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
This fact is why people find it odd that color is a reflection rather than a trait of an object, that tastes can be distorted by smells, and that cold sensations are relative to other temperature sensations.

That they do, but I would figure that a moment's thought would snap them out of it. :?


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Sand
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25 Jan 2009, 1:56 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Saerain wrote:
I found it interesting, though, that they had no problem with understanding that sight is light, yet seemed thrown by the notion that sound is vibration. There was something counterintuitive about it for them. I don't know if they thought their ears were picking up telepathic signals or what.

There are different definitions of sound. I mean, hearing is the analog of sight in most people's minds, so the question they seem to have is more analogous to whether or not there can be unseen light, yet, because sound is considered less constant than light is, it is more puzzling, as hearing is the only sense that seems defined by unusual stimulus, while smells, touch, taste, and seeing seem to be more matters of perceiving an always existent trait of objects. This fact is why people find it odd that color is a reflection rather than a trait of an object, that tastes can be distorted by smells, and that cold sensations are relative to other temperature sensations.

At least, that is all my speculation on this. Perhaps I am being too kind to the people you used to know. :)


But there is a wide spectrum of electromagnetic radiation which is unseen. What we label "light" is an extremely narrow band of the radiation spectrum and other living things are aware of other parts of the radiation that is invisible to humans. The sound spectrum is likewise wider than we perceive and available to elephants on the low end and bats and dolphins on the high end. Taste is a combination of smell and what hits our tongues and is not distorted by these variations but requires both to be an identifiable sensation. The reflective capability of a solid is an identifiable trait of the object and cannot be dismissed irrelevant.

The problem boils down to what is defined as existence. If you cannot detect a phenomenon you may declare it either non-detectable or non-existent but if its presence is detected through mechanisms that can be translated into detectable phenomena such as radio waves translated into music by a radio it seems sensible to acknowledge their existence. And if sound is defined as air vibrations whether the human ear is defeated by either non-presence at the site or inability of the ear to respond to parts of the sound spectrum then that sound must be accepted as existing, just as a radio not tuned to the full broadcast array cannot deny the fact that that array does exist.



ruveyn
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25 Jan 2009, 4:54 am

Sand wrote:

But there is a wide spectrum of electromagnetic radiation which is unseen. What we label "light" is an extremely narrow band of the radiation spectrum and other living things are aware of other parts of the radiation that is invisible to humans. The sound spectrum is likewise wider than we perceive and available to elephants on the low end and bats and dolphins on the high end. Taste is a combination of smell and what hits our tongues and is not distorted by these variations but requires both to be an identifiable sensation. The reflective capability of a solid is an identifiable trait of the object and cannot be dismissed irrelevant.

The problem boils down to what is defined as existence. If you cannot detect a phenomenon you may declare it either non-detectable or non-existent but if its presence is detected through mechanisms that can be translated into detectable phenomena such as radio waves translated into music by a radio it seems sensible to acknowledge their existence. And if sound is defined as air vibrations whether the human ear is defeated by either non-presence at the site or inability of the ear to respond to parts of the sound spectrum then that sound must be accepted as existing, just as a radio not tuned to the full broadcast array cannot deny the fact that that array does exist.


Every so often I am amazed and bamboozled by how much we can tease out of reality with such a narrow band of perception. Humans are very smart primates!

ruveyn



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25 Jan 2009, 5:22 am

Narrow band of perception. That's exactly how I'd put it.



TallyMan
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25 Jan 2009, 5:35 am

ruveyn wrote:
Every so often I am amazed and bamboozled by how much we can tease out of reality with such a narrow band of perception. Humans are very smart primates!


True, and where our senses are limited we make instruments to explore beyond them, probing all depths of physical reality.


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slowmutant
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25 Jan 2009, 5:48 am

Does science even address metaphysics?

I'm not sure that science is in fact a metaphysical party pooper.



LostInEmulation
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25 Jan 2009, 6:06 am

Science approaches them, says 'Evidence or it didn't happen!' and leaves when it can not find any. Insofar the existence of the scientific method threatens metaphysics without actually addressing it.


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25 Jan 2009, 6:08 am

Yes, that's what I thought. Makes a whole whack of sense.



Sand
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25 Jan 2009, 6:13 am

slowmutant wrote:
Does science even address metaphysics?

I'm not sure that science is in fact a metaphysical party pooper.


Metaphysics, like philosophy and theology consists of speculative theory with no required physically observed validation. Science in general uses speculation as its first steps in understanding the universe but the concepts must have some sort of observed validation to be accepted in science. That is why much philosophy, metaphysics, and theology is rather fascinating nonsense more responsive to the psychological desires and fears of the human brain than to actuality.



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25 Jan 2009, 6:37 am

Sand wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Does science even address metaphysics?

I'm not sure that science is in fact a metaphysical party pooper.


Metaphysics, like philosophy and theology consists of speculative theory with no required physically observed validation. Science in general uses speculation as its first steps in understanding the universe but the concepts must have some sort of observed validation to be accepted in science. That is why much philosophy, metaphysics, and theology is rather fascinating nonsense more responsive to the psychological desires and fears of the human brain than to actuality.


You have a real talent for grandiosity.