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A question about Judaism and Israel

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RageBeoulve
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27 Jul 2009, 12:57 am

This may be a silly question, but you know how if someone is Jewish, they can claim citizenship in Israel or something like that. If I convert to Judaism can I go to Israel and claim citizenship?



Sand
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27 Jul 2009, 1:23 am

RageBeoulve wrote:
This may be a silly question, but you know how if someone is Jewish, they can claim citizenship in Israel or something like that. If I convert to Judaism can I go to Israel and claim citizenship?


Although the Balfour Declaration by the British Government in 1917 indicated that Palestine could be a Jewish homeland as gratitude for Chaim Weizmann's help in WWI, actual acceptance of Israel did not come about until the ultimate horror of the Holocaust created enough revulsion in the world towards antisemitism to permit the creation of Israel. One of Israel's prime concepts was therefore that all legitimate Jews could claim Israel as a refuge.



nara44
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27 Jul 2009, 3:41 am

RageBeoulve wrote:
This may be a silly question, but you know how if someone is Jewish, they can claim citizenship in Israel or something like that. If I convert to Judaism can I go to Israel and claim citizenship?


Yes u can ,but you will have to study really hard for a very long time and commit to a religious life style.
Anyway, u don't have to be a Jew in order to claim citizenship here,
All u have to so is to live here for few years and then declare your loyalty to the state
i don't know all the rules but basically it's no different then immigrating to the states/

Jews enjoy the "right to return" so the can get citizenship much easier,
the subject is debated extensively in Israel as there are many voices for the canceling of this arrangement as some people think that Jews are no longer under threat and any way Israel is far from being the safest place for the Jews/
the law was provided in order to guarantee a safe haven for the jews which make some sens if u take into account the history of this people but many other countries in the world make it easier for their own ethnic diaspora



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27 Jul 2009, 7:05 am

I don't think it would be such a good idea... :)

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27 Jul 2009, 12:14 pm

nara44 wrote:
RageBeoulve wrote:
This may be a silly question, but you know how if someone is Jewish, they can claim citizenship in Israel or something like that. If I convert to Judaism can I go to Israel and claim citizenship?


Yes u can ,but you will have to study really hard for a very long time and commit to a religious life style.
Anyway, u don't have to be a Jew in order to claim citizenship here,
All u have to so is to live here for few years and then declare your loyalty to the state
i don't know all the rules but basically it's no different then immigrating to the states/

Jews enjoy the "right to return" so the can get citizenship much easier,
the subject is debated extensively in Israel as there are many voices for the canceling of this arrangement as some people think that Jews are no longer under threat and any way Israel is far from being the safest place for the Jews/
the law was provided in order to guarantee a safe haven for the jews which make some sens if u take into account the history of this people but many other countries in the world make it easier for their own ethnic diaspora


I guess if it's about living there and claimign soem loyalty to the state, that is much easier than in most countries. I heard in the US it's very hard to immigrate there, let alone get citizinship. I don't know about he procedure here but I think it's very harsh, too.



xenon13
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27 Jul 2009, 1:36 pm

If one grandparent is or was Jewish, you are automatically entitled to Israeli citizenship. This is how many non-Jewish Russians got in to escape the wreckage caused by such Jewish Russians like Boris Berezovsky, alias Platon Yelenin, in their homeland!

There is only one kosher Judaism in Israel - Orthodox Judaism. Civil law in Israel is that of Orthodox Judaism... Still, other kinds of Jews can move there and obtain citizenship.

Israel officially is the state of all Jews all over the world, not the state of the people living there. It is unique in the world for that. Moreover, Israel has no fixed borders. This is one reason why the Border Police are everywhere in much of the land inside its security perimeter.

If someone who was driven out of his home in Jaffa in 1947 were to somehow show up and claim loyalty to Israel I doubt that he would be allowed to stay at all... he would be sent back to the refugee camp that has been his home since then.



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27 Jul 2009, 2:05 pm

RageBeoulve wrote:
This may be a silly question, but you know how if someone is Jewish, they can claim citizenship in Israel or something like that. If I convert to Judaism can I go to Israel and claim citizenship?


Nope. To be eligible to be a citizen of Israel, you must be able to claim a matron lineage of Judaism.


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skafather84
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27 Jul 2009, 2:09 pm

Sand wrote:
RageBeoulve wrote:
This may be a silly question, but you know how if someone is Jewish, they can claim citizenship in Israel or something like that. If I convert to Judaism can I go to Israel and claim citizenship?


Although the Balfour Declaration by the British Government in 1917 indicated that Palestine could be a Jewish homeland as gratitude for Chaim Weizmann's help in WWI, actual acceptance of Israel did not come about until the ultimate horror of the Holocaust created enough revulsion in the world towards antisemitism to permit the creation of Israel. One of Israel's prime concepts was therefore that all legitimate Jews could claim Israel as a refuge.


Quote:
Foreign Office,
November 2nd, 1917.

Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour



The wording sounds a little different that what you stated.


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ruveyn
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27 Jul 2009, 3:59 pm

RageBeoulve wrote:
This may be a silly question, but you know how if someone is Jewish, they can claim citizenship in Israel or something like that. If I convert to Judaism can I go to Israel and claim citizenship?


Actually being Jewish is not enough. The Gangster Meyer Lansky attempted to get Israeli citizenship on the grounds that he was Jewish. Israel turned him down flat.

ruveyn



Sand
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27 Jul 2009, 7:16 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Sand wrote:
RageBeoulve wrote:
This may be a silly question, but you know how if someone is Jewish, they can claim citizenship in Israel or something like that. If I convert to Judaism can I go to Israel and claim citizenship?


Although the Balfour Declaration by the British Government in 1917 indicated that Palestine could be a Jewish homeland as gratitude for Chaim Weizmann's help in WWI, actual acceptance of Israel did not come about until the ultimate horror of the Holocaust created enough revulsion in the world towards antisemitism to permit the creation of Israel. One of Israel's prime concepts was therefore that all legitimate Jews could claim Israel as a refuge.


Quote:
Foreign Office,
November 2nd, 1917.

Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour



The wording sounds a little different that what you stated.


Right. Nevertheless it was a move in the direction I indicated.



RageBeoulve
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27 Jul 2009, 9:24 pm

Henriksson wrote:
I don't think it would be such a good idea... :)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olg1efSlvLg[/youtube]

They don't extradite their citizens. Seems like a good idea if I ever want to go on a crime spree in the USA. I could cut people up and Israel wouldn't send me back. Some guy in DC killed a family, cut them up, and fled to israel, and Israel wouldn't extradite him.



nara44
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28 Jul 2009, 4:56 am

skafather84 wrote:
RageBeoulve wrote:
This may be a silly question, but you know how if someone is Jewish, they can claim citizenship in Israel or something like that. If I convert to Judaism can I go to Israel and claim citizenship?


Nope. To be eligible to be a citizen of Israel, you must be able to claim a matron lineage of Judaism.



You are very wrong
converting will do
also
as i wrote before u do not have to be a Jew in order to be citizen of Israel
there are many citizens in Israel who are not Jewish
Christians,Muslims,bahas....

and contrary to the antisemitic post above you the Civil law in Israel is not Orthodox Judaism,
Israel is a secular state
most people here doesn't practice any religion at all
i was born here and i don't remember ever seeing a synagogue from inside


please
get some education before you speak on matter u know nothing about



nara44
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28 Jul 2009, 5:00 am

RageBeoulve wrote:


They don't extradite their citizens. Seems like a good idea if I ever want to go on a crime spree in the USA. I could cut people up and Israel wouldn't send me back. Some guy in DC killed a family, cut them up, and fled to israel, and Israel wouldn't extradite him.



They do
Israel extradite ppl like you to the states on a regular basis
to other counties too
it's all matter of international and legal pacts
and israel has a very tight arrangements with the FBI and other USA law branches
so please
try not to cut people if can


extradition
and this ppl are not immigrants but were born in Israel
and yes
they are jews



Last edited by nara44 on 28 Jul 2009, 5:17 am, edited 4 times in total.

Henriksson
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28 Jul 2009, 5:05 am

EDIT: Never mind.


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Last edited by Henriksson on 28 Jul 2009, 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

nara44
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28 Jul 2009, 5:05 am

Sand wrote:



The wording sounds a little different that what you stated

Right. Nevertheless it was a move in the direction I indicated.


Israel is a sovereign country for many years and like any other country it is free to live by it own rules
Britain opinions or permissions are not relevant to Israel since the day the UN mandate ended
let me remind u that Israel is no longer a colony of the GB



Sand
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28 Jul 2009, 6:37 am

nara44 wrote:
Sand wrote:



The wording sounds a little different that what you stated

Right. Nevertheless it was a move in the direction I indicated.


Israel is a sovereign country for many years and like any other country it is free to live by it own rules
Britain opinions or permissions are not relevant to Israel since the day the UN mandate ended
let me remind u that Israel is no longer a colony of the GB


In other words you say the Balfour declaration had no effect whatsoever on the movement of Jews to Palestine. That it was a piece of useless nonsense and Chaim Weizmann was not a Zionist and had no influence in the matter?

See http://www.zionism-israel.com/Balfour_D ... n_1917.htm