Do we need war?

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03 Jul 2009, 3:21 am

I've come to the conclusion that war, along with famine and disease, exist because they're "Mother Nature's" way of balancing out the human population. If the "three deadly killers" suddenly disappeared, the human population would eventually overcome the planet. There would be no walking space for anyone, and we would all starve to death, causing the extinction of the human race.

I know that according to history, most of the wars happened because two or more different communities had religious or political disagreements. Many people have said that the human race was better off without religion, but religion causes war, and from what I understand, we need war to help make sure that the population doesn't go out of control. So in a sick sad way, we need religion.

What I desperately need to know is if my conclusion on war is right or wrong. Do we need religion to cause war so the human's don't overpopulate? I'm at a moment of my life where I can't tell the difference between good or evil, right or wrong, etc.

scorpileo
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03 Jul 2009, 4:14 am

you're right... but religon is not the only thing that causes war... greed and revenge cause it too

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03 Jul 2009, 6:25 am

AtomicKaiju wrote:

What I desperately need to know is if my conclusion on war is right or wrong. Do we need religion to cause war so the human's don't overpopulate? I'm at a moment of my life where I can't tell the difference between good or evil, right or wrong, etc.

The U.S. had no choice but to fight against the Nazis and Japanese. Our country was attacked and a response was called for. It was WW2.

If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, tear his head off and pee down his neck.

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zer0netgain
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03 Jul 2009, 8:21 am

AtomicKaiju wrote:

I know that according to history, most of the wars happened because two or more different communities had religious or political disagreements. Many people have said that the human race was better off without religion, but religion causes war, and from what I understand, we need war to help make sure that the population doesn't go out of control. So in a sick sad way, we need religion.

Historically, you are wrong.

Religion is nowhere near the top of the list for why wars happen. It's proven that atheists (people who did not invoke religion) started more wars and committed some of the most barbaric acts of genocide in human history.

Wars start over resources. Water, land, minerals, etc. That is the top cause. Do some political leaders try to invoke religion to get the masses to support the war effort? Yes. However, the war had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with resources.

You are correct that when the population reaches a given point that there is scarcity in resources so that a few have abundance and others go without, war tends to happen with greater frequency.

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03 Jul 2009, 11:12 am

ruveyn wrote:

I am not actually sure we had to. We provoked the attacks by essentially taking sides in the conflict while not officially declaring war. Taking sides while pretending to be neutral sort of undercuts the pretense of neutrality.

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03 Jul 2009, 11:31 am

zer0netgain wrote:

Religion is nowhere near the top of the list for why wars happen. It's proven that atheists (people who did not invoke religion) started more wars and committed some of the most barbaric acts of genocide in human history.

Examples?

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03 Jul 2009, 11:37 am

Maybe I'll end up sounding like a hippie, but I believe everything can be resolved with Love, Peace and Understanding.

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03 Jul 2009, 11:42 am

Henriksson wrote:

Maybe I'll end up sounding like a hippie, but I believe everything can be resolved with Love, Peace and Understanding.

I used to think that. But some people cannot understand conventional, or indeed any, logic - the Chinese government, creationists, my younger brother, etc.

If anyone manages to:
a) get China to stop abusing it's citizens,
b) get creationists to move with the times, and
c) get my brother to grow up and stop being obnoxious,
they truly deserve a Nobel Prize.

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03 Jul 2009, 11:51 am

AtomicKaiju wrote:

"moder nature" isnt concious. he/she doesnt reduce populations out of some sense of duty.
theres no such thing as another guaranteed virus that will eliminate people, once we find a cure for aids or whatever.
we could technically become so many, that we have to climb over each others heads.

war is simply instinct.
chimps have it. we have it. zebras dont.

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MikeH106
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03 Jul 2009, 11:55 am

If people just learn to have two kids each, then maybe we won't have to blow people's heads off and chop off their arms and legs.

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03 Jul 2009, 11:56 am

MikeH106 wrote:

If people just learn to have two kids each, then maybe we won't have to blow people's heads off and chop off their arms and legs.

ONE kid each

2 parents - 1 offspring - population reduction worth anything

:]

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03 Jul 2009, 12:08 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

Maybe I'll end up sounding like a hippie, but I believe everything can be resolved with Love, Peace and Understanding.

Your solution is to:

1) Declare War on China
2) Declare War on Creationism
3) Declare War on your Brother

:lol:

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zer0netgain
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03 Jul 2009, 12:17 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

Examples?

Nazi Germany
Stalinist Russia/Soviet Union
Mao's Red China
Cambodia (IIRC)

Those are just recent examples.

gina-ghettoprincess
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03 Jul 2009, 12:45 pm

Henriksson wrote:

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

Maybe I'll end up sounding like a hippie, but I believe everything can be resolved with Love, Peace and Understanding.

Your solution is to:

1) Declare War on China
2) Declare War on Creationism
3) Declare War on your Brother

:lol:

Not quite like that. My proposed solutions are:

China - sanctions. For the West to stop supporting their economy, as much as possible. Without our money, they're screwed, and will have no choice but to give their citizens some rights.
Creationism - legislation. Rule that science lessons in schools can legally only teach scientific fact, not pseudo-science, religious beliefs, etc. And outlaw faith schools on grounds of religious segregation.
My brother - counselling. And if that doesn't work, exile him to Afghanistan (he thinks it would be awesome to go there, so everyone will be better off if he's there).

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gina-ghettoprincess
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03 Jul 2009, 1:03 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:

zer0netgain wrote:

Examples?

Nazi Germany
Stalinist Russia/Soviet Union
Mao's Red China
Cambodia (IIRC)

Those are just recent examples.

Germany - anti-Semitism stems from religious dogma.
Russia - you're right on this one.
China - many religions are actively oppressed in China, so the troubles are still related to religion.
Cambodia - I don't know much about Cambodia, so I don't know if I agree with you or not.

Even with some of those being caused by atheists, look at some examples of wars, tensions, and brutalities caused by religion:

The Crusades.
All the beheadings/hangings/burnings of heretics during the Tudor era.
Israel/Palestine.
Northern Ireland.
Pakistan/India.
9-11.

I could go on for ages, but to sum up: where is the actual evidence suggesting that atheists in fact commited MORE atrocities than those acting in the name of religion?

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03 Jul 2009, 1:27 pm

NO...war might've been natural before nuclear bombs, artillery, and biological weapons were invented. In fact, with the amount of life destroyed from those weapons....it wouldn't surprise me the amount of animal life aside from human life becoming extinct. Maybe it worked at a time when weapons and food were scarce. At a time when it was actually survival of the fittest like most animals. Now humans have an unfair advantage and most of it's in the name of money, self-righteous leaders, sheeple being used as a pawn in their game......oh and religion...... :roll:

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