Where exactly does the "right to free speech" end?

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The people at school who are bullying me have picked up a REALLY annoying habit of citing their right to free speech whenever I tell them to shut up and leave me alone.

I am having trouble coming up with a convincing counter-argument, because the only examples of things not covered by the right to free speech that I have heard are that you can't incite racial hatred, and you can't shout "fire!" in a crowded theatre.

What exactly is and is not covered by the right to free speech?

Fomenting riots and lynchings is illegal. Also conspiring to commit illegal acts is illegal. Falsely producing panic is legally actionable after the fact. Libel and Slander are actionable after the fact, provided they produce monetary or material damage.

Revealing proprietary data or writing/speaking in violation of a secrecy contract is actionable.

Other than that you can say or write anything you damned well please. One can call people names, make them cry, make them feel like sh*t and such like. It is a free or semi-free country we live in. If someone insults you and hurts your feelings, the solution is simple: develop a thick skin.

ruveyn

They don't have the right to do anything they please on a school campus. In addition to that school can argue that it has the right to enforce some rules outside of school time, so long as they are a pupil there.

Just like there are conditions to posting on WP.

You are not preventing their free speech by telling them to shut up. You also have the right not to be harassed.

Right to free speech isn't the same thing as having the write to use any publisher or medium of communication. It just means, if there is a means of communication available, most commonly what comes out of their mouth, they can not be persecuted simply because of those words.

The right to free speech is actually a bit more complex than most people acknowledge. The government is not permitted to restrict one's right to free speech except in very circumscribed situations, but that doesn't mean that anyone can say whatever s/he wants wherever s/he wants. The right to free speech does not provide anyone with the right to a platform from which to speak, nor does it require that anyone listen to that speech.

On private property, the property owner is free to restrict speech in whatever manner s/he wishes. In situations where people are not free to leave, freedom of speech may not applicable - there can be an exception because of "captive audience." Any time the freedom of speech impinges on someone else's rights, there will be a balancing of the rights in order to determine which rights supersede the other.

It is an argument that, to my mind, is not worth it. People have opinions, and some have a real malignant streak; doesn't mean they are right, or worth upsetting ourselves over. If you are at school, then this is an issue for the administration... not a Supreme Court case. By arguing, one gives them ammunition and feeds the fire of abuse... it's really hard to torment someone who doesn't give a damn what you have to say. Just my two bits.


M.

in norway, and many european countries, free speech HAS law-bound restrictions. its not entirely free.

"hate speech" is banned by law in norway, blatant racism is the best example of "hate speech". most public fascist ideas as well.
im fine with that.

bullying is tricky, but in the adult world you can report bullying and have something done, with some luck. work places for example, cannot afford to have bullies ruining the work for others, but i must assume its very difficult to get any results...

when i was bullied in school i kept it to myself (teachers are blind as bats anyway). my mother found out, told my teachers, they basically ratted me out, and i was bullied more

Private venue. The owners of the site can set up any rules they please.

In public there are fewer restrictions and the government has very limited authority in either prohibiting speech/writing or taking action after the fact. The result is there is a lot of nasty speech/writing the the government has no say over.

ruveyn

this goes for norway as well. our share of neo-nazis etc are allowed to have their little hang-outs and do their thing. they also have a political party, or two.. and an internet site, only they are bound by restrictions whenever they act in public. the political party must weigh their public words, and so must their internet site.
police shut their site down one time it was discovered they were featuring homework-aid... on history lessons... haha
theyre also allowed to do marches, but not to yell racist chants. they follow the rules, which often results in opposing anti-nazi demonstrants getting their ass kicked by cops

its tricky.

germany has specifically outlawed nazism, if im not entirely mistaken

Thanks for all the help so far, guys.

@makuranososhi - the problem isn't so much WHAT they are saying, it's that they're saying it at all. It's when we're in class and I'm just trying to get on with my work, they suddenly start having a go at me for no reason, so I get distracted from my work.

I see - thank you for the clarification. It may be something to address with the teacher, to move or to ask him/her to be observant of the situation, or headphones in class when you are just working (not in lecture) might be possible (have seen it done here in the States as an accommodation). Instead of confronting them on their point of attack, perhaps change the subject in your response: "Do you have nothing better to do than embarrass yourself trying to make yourself look good by mocking me?" or something to that effect can have a remarkable ability at deflating the sails as it makes them aware of their own behavior without getting into a subjective argument.


M.

i'd say stick it out...

i always say that

i dont wanna be the black shadow here, but my teacher _did_ get informed about the bullying, and it made it _worse_.
NOW

thats
1. 15 years ago
2. the teacher told the bullies _i_ ratted (when it was my mother.) and told them to quit. lame approach.
3. she had absolutely zero follow up.

if you know your teacher is better than this, then tell him/her, maybe take it up w someone you _know_ are more competent, who can take the necesary steps. dont "run and tell", it doesnt work (you probably know )

talking against them/answering back cleverly might work. i wouldnt know.
kicking them in the groin works, theyre like little hyenas, they run away for a little while laughing and whimpering, but then come sneaking back ;]

btw makuranososhi im gonna follow you around wherever you make a positively loaded advice, and ill be the negatively angled counterpart! hahaha

always important keep hope in check! thats my task!

I'm afraid I don't see the relevance of legality here if you tell them to shut up; the first thing that comes to mind is that people conflate the right to do something with the moral right to do something. It is idiotic to suppose that the lack of a legal injunction against giving someone grief grants one the right to do so in anything other than the crudest sense of the word, and therefore it is at absolute best a counterargument against use of legal authority rather than a meaningful justification of being a pain.

Not really. Especially in a school, where a code of conduct can be imposed. Students can't bring a soapbox in to class and lecture about their interests when the teacher is trying to cover math, literature or science.

Free speech is not a license to harass - it guarantees the ability to discuss ideas, not to tease, insult, or degrade others. Harassment in the workplace can be quite illegal - even if it only involves 'speech'. Harassment outside of the workplace can be disorderly conduct, public nuisance, etc.

Last edited by monty on 15 Jul 2009, 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Your right to free speech ends when you either incite people to violence or do something to cause harm (emotional or otherwise) to a specific person or group present.

If I don't like homosexuals, I can talk all I want against them in general, but if I start picking on one in particular, it's a personal attack.

Bullying works along the same lines.

The ACLU has an article on balancing the free-speech rights of students with the rights of students to be free from harassment.

http://www.aclu.org/lgbt/youth/11904res20030615.html