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Henriksson
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03 Aug 2009, 6:15 pm

Here is a quote from the title of a chapter of a book written by a person about preparing historical documents:

"How it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived."

For the prize of an, er, Kinder Egg, who said this and what historical document did he 'prepare'?


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phil777
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03 Aug 2009, 6:20 pm

I'm excluding myself from answering but you know... Google is quite handy :roll: .



Henriksson
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03 Aug 2009, 6:22 pm

phil777 wrote:
I'm excluding myself from answering but you know... Google is quite handy :roll: .

I actually know who it is, but for the purposes of this thread I won't tell who it is until a few have looked into it... :P


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scorpileo
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03 Aug 2009, 6:28 pm

Henriksson wrote:
Here is a quote from the title of a chapter of a book written by a person about preparing historical documents:

"How it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived."

For the prize of an, er, Kinder Egg, who said this and what historical document did he 'prepare'?


Bishop Eusebiu..? the b ible


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pandd
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03 Aug 2009, 11:09 pm

My name is pandd and I am a recovering kinderholic. I have been clean for several years now but every day is still a struggle.


Ooops, sorry, I thought this was a KA meeting.



Henriksson
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04 Aug 2009, 3:26 am

The thing about kinder eggs, is that you can never guess what sort of surprise you get!

Person: Eusebius
Historical Document: The New Testament

Quote:
Who was this man that determined the basis for almost all the beliefs of a religion, which is accepted by over 2 billion people under the control of churches claiming the title, Christian? No single person had more influence over those beliefs than the original editor of the "Bible" and the first theologian, who determined the doctrines of the first Universal / Catholic Church, from which come, most of the beliefs of the Protestant Church. There is no dispute that Eusebius was completed dedicated to the divine authority and reform agenda of the Emperor Constantine, and that he was trusted to shape that agenda into a religion by Constantine. It is most curious that there was never any pronouncement by any central authority, such as the Pope, in all of Christian history concerning, which books belonged in the Bible, until 1443 AD at the conclusion of the Council of Florence.
As a church historian, Eusebius receives very low marks and has even been characterized by the noted Swiss historian, Jacob Burckhardt, as "the first thoroughly dishonest historian of antiquity". Eusebius openly displays his lack of integrity in his Ecclesiastical History by stating "We shall introduce into this history in general only those events which may be useful first to ourselves and afterwards to posterity."
As a theologian he directly affirmed his total disregard for honesty, in his Evangelical Preparation, by declaring "How it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.", as well as "it is necessary sometimes to use falsehood as a medicine for those who need such an approach", and "falsehood is something even more useful". Here we have the very first theologian clearly stating that it was proper to use deception to achieve an end. To put in different terms; the ends justify the means, no matter how deceptive those means are.
This man, who has sole authority over what is doctrine in the Christian religion, and, who lacks moral integrity, decided that, at least, 33% of all the commonly accepted books considered to be "New Testament" by the earlier church, should be purged.


Quote:
Eusebius, a little known figure in the Christian reality, was the first court-appointed Christian theologian in the service of the Emperor Constantine. Constantine commissioned Eusebius, personally, to produce fifty excellent copies of the sacred scriptures but gave no instruction what books Eusebius should include or, on what authority or criteria that decision should be made. He was given sole authority over this project and, therefore, became the first editor of the Bible we have today.
The entire basis of belief for the Christian Church allegedly comes from the Bible, although simple research proves the reality to be otherwise. However, this concept is accepted by most Catholics and Protestants. There are actually surviving copies of that original Bible called the Codex Sinaiticus. This Bible, produced by Eusebius, is the same as that produced by King James with the exception of the New Testament Epistle of Barnabas, and the book of Hermas, which, though widely regarded as inspired, were purged before the 1611 translation.
The religion created by Constantine was formed by the "opinions" of Eusebius and there is no record of any reference to standards of historical research or textual criticism. He did not form his idea of what was accepted by using the books that existed as the foundation for that acceptance, but first created the religious beliefs and accepted only the books that matched those beliefs. Eusebius stated that the only standard he used in deciding which texts to call "recognized" is to accept only books that were recognized by orthodox authors he knew. Merriam-Webster defines "orthodox" as: "conforming to established doctrine especially in religion". Eusebius determined the doctrine of the religion and therefore became the sole judge of what was "orthodox".
The result of Eusebius' final judgment of biblical canon, the books of the New Testament to be included in that original Bible, was the division of all known and accepted books into three categories:


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zena4
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04 Aug 2009, 6:26 am

Oh thank you Henriksson.
I didn't know anything about this Eusebius..
You made my day :)



Sand
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04 Aug 2009, 6:52 am

Henriksson wrote:
The thing about kinder eggs, is that you can never guess what sort of surprise you get!

Person: Eusebius
Historical Document: The New Testament

Quote:
Who was this man that determined the basis for almost all the beliefs of a religion, which is accepted by over 2 billion people under the control of churches claiming the title, Christian? No single person had more influence over those beliefs than the original editor of the "Bible" and the first theologian, who determined the doctrines of the first Universal / Catholic Church, from which come, most of the beliefs of the Protestant Church. There is no dispute that Eusebius was completed dedicated to the divine authority and reform agenda of the Emperor Constantine, and that he was trusted to shape that agenda into a religion by Constantine. It is most curious that there was never any pronouncement by any central authority, such as the Pope, in all of Christian history concerning, which books belonged in the Bible, until 1443 AD at the conclusion of the Council of Florence.
As a church historian, Eusebius receives very low marks and has even been characterized by the noted Swiss historian, Jacob Burckhardt, as "the first thoroughly dishonest historian of antiquity". Eusebius openly displays his lack of integrity in his Ecclesiastical History by stating "We shall introduce into this history in general only those events which may be useful first to ourselves and afterwards to posterity."
As a theologian he directly affirmed his total disregard for honesty, in his Evangelical Preparation, by declaring "How it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.", as well as "it is necessary sometimes to use falsehood as a medicine for those who need such an approach", and "falsehood is something even more useful". Here we have the very first theologian clearly stating that it was proper to use deception to achieve an end. To put in different terms; the ends justify the means, no matter how deceptive those means are.
This man, who has sole authority over what is doctrine in the Christian religion, and, who lacks moral integrity, decided that, at least, 33% of all the commonly accepted books considered to be "New Testament" by the earlier church, should be purged.


Quote:
Eusebius, a little known figure in the Christian reality, was the first court-appointed Christian theologian in the service of the Emperor Constantine. Constantine commissioned Eusebius, personally, to produce fifty excellent copies of the sacred scriptures but gave no instruction what books Eusebius should include or, on what authority or criteria that decision should be made. He was given sole authority over this project and, therefore, became the first editor of the Bible we have today.
The entire basis of belief for the Christian Church allegedly comes from the Bible, although simple research proves the reality to be otherwise. However, this concept is accepted by most Catholics and Protestants. There are actually surviving copies of that original Bible called the Codex Sinaiticus. This Bible, produced by Eusebius, is the same as that produced by King James with the exception of the New Testament Epistle of Barnabas, and the book of Hermas, which, though widely regarded as inspired, were purged before the 1611 translation.
The religion created by Constantine was formed by the "opinions" of Eusebius and there is no record of any reference to standards of historical research or textual criticism. He did not form his idea of what was accepted by using the books that existed as the foundation for that acceptance, but first created the religious beliefs and accepted only the books that matched those beliefs. Eusebius stated that the only standard he used in deciding which texts to call "recognized" is to accept only books that were recognized by orthodox authors he knew. Merriam-Webster defines "orthodox" as: "conforming to established doctrine especially in religion". Eusebius determined the doctrine of the religion and therefore became the sole judge of what was "orthodox".
The result of Eusebius' final judgment of biblical canon, the books of the New Testament to be included in that original Bible, was the division of all known and accepted books into three categories:


I very much appreciate your letting me know that there are huge gobbets of Christianity that have been excised but do you believe that this intricate and circuitous invention of rather sophisticated but grossly fantastic nonsense on a level with one of Lewis Carroll's amusing and frequently horrifying creations has anything of real value more than an overworked piece of tableware from a rather skilled Renaissance metalworker?



zena4
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04 Aug 2009, 7:03 am

The calendars are dated upon Jesus Christ's life all over the world (and not upon Tim Burton's muse).
Even the Jews, even the Chinese, even everybody use them beside their own chronology.
... So there must have been something in the begining to start with?



Henriksson
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04 Aug 2009, 7:07 am

zena4 wrote:
The calendars are dated upon Jesus Christ's life all over the world (and not upon Tim Burton's muse).
Even the Jews, even the Chinese, even everybody use them beside their own chronology.
... So there must have been something in the begining to start it, don't you think so?

How could this global chronology be possible without Emperor Constantine?


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zena4
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04 Aug 2009, 7:13 am

Right :scratch:

But why would have he done such a thing?
I mean: the Nicée of Constantine is far away afterwards, after things happened?

... Do you mean that it could have been just a manner of taking more power to him?
And we just went on and on and on through all the generations on the run-up?



Henriksson
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04 Aug 2009, 7:26 am

zena4 wrote:
Right :scratch:

But why would have he done such a thing?
I mean: the Nicée of Constantine is far away afterwards, afther things happened?

... Do you mean that it could have been just a manner of taking more power over people to him?

In Ancient times, politics and religion was indivisible. They just so happened to use Christianity as a new way to hold the crumbling empire together, and after the Roman empire fell, Christianity continued to be the prime political force, and it was used as the catalyst for societal change, for example through Protestantism. Much of Europe came under Protestantism not because it was any more better than Catholicism, but because it had many political benefits for the leaders of the countries that adopted it. Islam was a contestor to the title of being the dominant religion, but because of several historical reasons they failed, though they still have much influence. During the Renaissance Europe became the center of the world, and Christianity spread in that manner. Which eventually affected even the dating methods of people all over the world.

This is a much more plausible explanation than 'God did it'.


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zena4
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04 Aug 2009, 8:31 am

Thanks :)



ruveyn
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04 Aug 2009, 9:35 am

I guess the first requirement for a religion is a recognized Book of Lies.

Wait! Don't we have that already?

ruveyn



monty
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04 Aug 2009, 1:04 pm

If you can sell me a few kinder eggs, I will hatch them, and send them to the kindergarden.



pakled
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04 Aug 2009, 1:20 pm

But the calendar wasn't set until the 5th Century. The whole thing revolved around how to set the date for Easter, something that flummoxed the Venable Bede (or was that Venerable?...;) Some monk discovered a cycle of Easters working out for 500+ (don't remember the exact number) years, and used the pattern to set the 'appropriate' date.

Later it was discovered that Jesus was most likely born in 4 BC...;)

I'll take my eggs cruel, if you don't mind...;)