China’s Plan To Conquer

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Joined: 18 Jul 2009
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28 Jul 2009, 7:10 pm

Now here's some enlightening reading.
http://news.ronatvan.com/2009/03/04/chinas-plan-to-conquer/

A few segments of the transcript :arrow:

Quote:

China’s Plan To Conquer
Posted by webmaster
March 4, 2009
Listen to this article. Powered by Odiogo.com

The following is the actual text of a speech delivered in December, 2005 by Comrade Chi Haotian the Vice-Chairman of China’s Military Commission to top officers and generals. Keep in mind that China has for many years advocated deceitful and covert warfare against its enemies. This is their Modus Operandi. There should be little question that a “Bird Flu” Pandemic would deeply excite them. (Don’t forget how they have poisoned thousands of American pets and knowingly placed lead paints on toddler’s toys.)

Quote:

In reviewing history, one may ask: Will the centre of the world civilization shift back to China? Actually, Comrade Liu Huaqing made similar points in early 1980’s Based on an historical analysis, he pointed out that the centre of world civilization is shifting. It shifted from the East to Western Europe and later to the United States; now it is shifting back to the East. Therefore, if we refer to the 19th Century as the British Century and the 20th century as the American Century, then the 21st Century will be the Chinese Century! (Wild applause fills the auditorium.)

Our Chinese people are wiser than the Germans because, fundamentally, our race is superior to theirs. As a result, we have a longer history, more people, and larger land area. On this basis, our ancestors left us with the two most essential heritages, which are atheism and great unity. It was Confucius, the founder of our Chinese culture, who gave us these heritages. These two heritages determined that we have a stronger ability to survive than the West. That is why the Chinese race has been able to prosper for so long. We are destined ‘not to be buried by either heaven or earth’ no matter how severe the natural, man-made, and national disasters. This is our advantage. Take response to war as an example. The reason that the United States remains today is that it has never seen war on its mainland. Once its enemies aim at the mainland, the enemies would have already reached Washington before its congress finishes debating and authorizes the president to declare war. But for us, we don’t waste time on these trivial things. Maybe you have now come to understand why we recently decided to further promulgate atheism. If we let theology from the West into China and empty us from the inside, if we let all Chinese people listen to God and follow God, who will obediently listen to us and follow us? If the common people don’t believe Comrade Hu Jintao is a qualified leader, begin to question his authority, and want to monitor him, if the religious followers in our society question why we are leading God in churches, can our Party continue to rule China??

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skafather84
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28 Jul 2009, 7:28 pm

"Israel plans to colonize Hungary"

http://news.ronatvan.com/2009/07/25/isr ... e-hungary/

....I don't think that page is a reliable news source....and quite likely is an ultra-conservative/nazi front.

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southwestforests
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28 Jul 2009, 8:07 pm

That news agency definitely has right wing, uh, shall we say, "leanings", (at a minimum- close to if not extremist), but I have come across other sources over the last several years which support the text of the Chinese official's speech and other quotes from Chinese officials.

Will see what I can find of them.
May take a bit.

Occasionally, even whacko extremists get something right.
The million dollar trick is sorting out which one it is they got right.

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protest_the_hero
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28 Jul 2009, 8:09 pm

What if the Chinese decide to deal with overpopulation by killing everyone else. I could see it happening. They do tend to be quite racist.

southwestforests
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28 Jul 2009, 8:20 pm

Here's a bulletin board it would be interesting to poke around in:

http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/viewthread.php?gid=&tid=642689
Gotta love this exchange:

Quote:

QUOTE:
Originally posted by interesting at 2009-7-26 05:13
The extent to which you people are totally clueless about everything you talk about is amazing.
interesting, just because you are a Pro-West, Pro-US person, it doesn't mean the thread has no meaning. It does from Chinese point of view.

Is it just me, or is one of these posters just a hair on the arrogant side?

The home page:
http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/index.php http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/index.php

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"Every time you don't follow your inner guidance,
you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness."
- Shakti Gawain

Last edited by southwestforests on 28 Jul 2009, 10:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

southwestforests
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28 Jul 2009, 8:37 pm

Hey, just found the PLA's own news website,
http://english.pladaily.com.cn/

Quote:

About Us

　　Sponsored by the PLA Daily and with official authorization of the related departments of the state and the PLA, China Military Online is now the only authoritative media of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to release military news and comprehensive military-related information on the Internet.　

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"Every time you don't follow your inner guidance,
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southwestforests
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28 Jul 2009, 8:43 pm

Interesting quotes in here;
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/international/asia/15china.html

Quote:

General Zhu, considered a hawk, stressed that his comments reflected his personal views and not official policy. Beijing has long insisted that it will not initiate the use of nuclear weapons in any conflict.

But in extensive comments to a visiting delegation of correspondents based in Hong Kong, General Zhu said he believed that the Chinese government was under internal pressure to change its "no first use" policy and to make clear that it would employ the most powerful weapons at its disposal to defend its claim over Taiwan.

"War logic" dictates that a weaker power needs to use maximum efforts to defeat a stronger rival, he said, speaking in fluent English. "We have no capability to fight a conventional war against the United States," General Zhu said. "We can't win this kind of war."

Then the logical thing to do would be unconventional war.
Which brings us back to what the Chinese official is said to have said according to the article referenced at the top of this thread.

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skafather84
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28 Jul 2009, 8:44 pm

southwestforests wrote:

Hey, just found the PLA's own news website,
http://english.pladaily.com.cn/

Quote:

What good does it do to read propaganda? I mean if I wanted that, I could just read Fox News and get the same thing.

southwestforests
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28 Jul 2009, 9:10 pm

skafather84 wrote:

What good does it do to read propaganda?

There's always the entertainment value.
And,
somewhere in there, something might not be propaganda.
something in there might shed some light on something else.

It goes without saying, (but I'm going to say it anyway)
some sources should be totally discarded immediately
some sources should be looked at "with a grain of salt"
some of those sources have one or two useful items awash in a sea of nonsense.
some sources are half reliable
some sources are mostly reliable
some sources are definitely to be paid attention to.

And that ages old question is: Have I got right which one is which? This time.

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"Every time you don't follow your inner guidance,
you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness."
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pezar
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28 Jul 2009, 9:33 pm

The only problem with that is transporting 200 million soldiers over here at once. When the US fought in Europe, we sent over soldiers over a period of time. There are no borders on which China can mass troops. A giant flotilla of Chinese troop ships in the Pacific would be immediately noticed.

China seems to be considering the nuclear option, betting that either a) it can wipe us out before we can respond or b) it can turn off the power to our weapons, leaving us helpless. I don't know about the electricity to the nukes, but I would hope that the US army isn't relying on New Deal era rural power coops to provide juice to the silos in South Dakota. Maybe China has a weapon that can vaporize Cheyenne Mountain where the main controls are located. If they do, then they could use just a few of those and turn America into an arm of the ocean. I once read that it would take 30 minutes for Chinese ICBMs to reach the US. That's more than enough time to counterstrike.

It's more likely that stuff like this is a product of hard right factions in the PLA. It's misleading to think of the PLA as a single army with a single chain of command like the US Army. In fact, it's a big bureaucracy, and there are many factions with differing viewpoints contained therein. The Chinese civilian leadership doesn't have full control of the PLA hydra, and the hardliners say what they please and the main Party has little leverage.

Where the civilian leaders DO have leverage is in actually STARTING a war. If the hardliners broke away and decided to amass troops against the US and invade, the civilians would likely send more moderate factions to wipe out the hardliners. That, of course, would likely mean the end of the Chinese state as it currently exists, but I don't think the civilian leaders want to openly go to war with the US just to wipe it out. I know Mao said that China would one day destroy the US, and that the aftereffects of the nukes would be an acceptable price, but Mao has left the building. The thing is, some factions of the PLA are still trapped in Mao-think.

If any army can invade the US from far away, I'd like to know about it. The Japanese believed that they could conquer Australia, but they had a much more developed army. Also, WE have their old plans. Anything the Chinese could think up, we'd know about it. Thousands of miles of open ocean tend to deter a sea invasion. The Aussies were closer to Japan than we are to China. AND Japan had the Philippines and PNG as bases. The Chinese wouldn't have the element of surprise in a nuclear attack either. We'd be wiped out, but they would suffer heavy losses, and the Chinese state would be shattered. Stuff like this is why Khruschev wanted nukes in Cuba.

southwestforests
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28 Jul 2009, 9:40 pm

Is that speech reality?

How to determine that?
Can it be determined?
http://theglitteringeye.com/?p=1296

Quote:

The source of the Chinese language version of the speech was Boxun.com. Boxun (“Abundant News”) is a US-based Chinese language dissident news site. Here’s what EastSouthWestNorth has to say about it (from the unlinkable South China Morning Post):

Boxun’s founder, who goes by the pseudonym of Wei Shi and describes himself as a businessman, said from the US that he could not verify the web-posted stories from Qinghai that Boxun had run. Nor could he vouch for the alleged whistleblower’s credentials. All Boxun’s non-secondary source reports are posted anonymously. But he said he hoped that by putting the stories in the public domain, somebody would prove them true or false.

There is no second independent source for the speech.

So let’s recap. We have a speech that was allegedly given by an actual Chinese official. It’s not possible to establish the authoricity of the speech by textual analysis. There’s only a single source for the speech and the publishers of both the English language and Chinese versions of the speech may have axes to grind. To further complicate things it’s not possible to establish the reliability of several of the critics of these sources e.g. Wikipedia and EastSouthWestNorth. The final critic, the South China Morning News, is a legitimate newspaper and, presumably, can be considered to have at least a little reliability. Unfortunately, the quotation attributed to the SCMP isn’t actually linked and can’t be verified.

The more I look the more interesting the thing gets.

The biography of the man supposed to have given it:
http://www.chinatoday.com/who/c/chihaotian.htm

And more fun:

http://news.imagethief.com/blogs/china/archive/2005/08/21/4012.aspx

Quote:

Now, my criticism. Here are the top ten reasons why this is crackpot:

Gotta love the satire of reason #10 :roll:

Quote:

10. The Trilateral commission, the Elders of Zion and the Illuminati have already rumbled this plan and are, no doubt, way ahead of the game.

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"Every time you don't follow your inner guidance,
you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness."
- Shakti Gawain

pakled
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28 Jul 2009, 11:34 pm

If a man owes you a pound, you are his master
If a man owes you a million pounds, he is your master - Old Saying

I'm sure, that somewhere in some club in Swaziland, that there's some blowhard stating that the world would be a better place if the Swazis took over (insert your favorite nationality here...

The US and China are heading for a showdown; int the end, there can be only one superpower...

Sand
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29 Jul 2009, 12:51 am

The USA is far more useful to China today as a source of capital, technology and a market for the insatiable technological garbage it incessantly produces under the tutelage of the international corporations which have no loyalties to any nationality. When the USA is reduced to a third world country (which seems to be the aim of the current economic forces) there will be plenty of time for China to assert its powers.

enamdar
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29 Jul 2009, 1:28 am

I think I'm a 5th column

Last edited by enamdar on 29 Jul 2009, 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

skafather84
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29 Jul 2009, 1:32 am

Sand wrote:

When the USA is reduced to a third world country (which seems to be the aim of the current economic forces) there will be plenty of time for China to assert its powers.

I cringed when I read this part. Mostly because I know it's right. It's a big reason why I'm getting back into school and want to actually get, at the extreme least, my bachelor's...so that I can escape this country if I need to and be able to enter another country and live and work there.

Was considering moving to Poland because it's fairly unsuspecting and low profile. However, I'm a big fan of Belgium, Sweden, and the Netherlands.

Maybe do doctorate studies abroad to establish in another country and make the transition easier.

I'll need to pick soon so I can start my language studies as well.

/*groan at the thought of how much studying I'll have to do to maintain a high enough average to be worthy of such moves*
//it has to be done, though.
///so it will

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29 Jul 2009, 1:33 am

enamdar wrote:

Whatever China does to the new Anglo-Saxon empire will be just deserts for the Opium war. Besides at least China has a noble lie of eventually building a world free of suffering while America's value is suck it I got mine. Consider me a 5th column.

As much as I am disturbed over the historic hypocrisies of the USA they seem to somehow have some social values in the long run. The Chinese, who are undoubtedly a very clever and capable people, seem to have sustained a frightful totalitarian regime much more distasteful than the phony freedoms proclaimed in the USA.

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