Justice

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My Pet Peeve- When someone innocent is convicted

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

http://www.foreignword.com/Tools/dictsrch.asp?p=files/f_40_70.htm
Origin: I heard somewhere that the origin of justice actually goes back to "biblical times"
In Hebrew, justice is ts@daqah

My favorite example of justice:
http://www.mentallyincontinent.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=120

(I will edit this as I go on, be back soon)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justices


Good Sites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

USA
http://www.usdoj.gov/
http://www.uscourts.gov/

Canada
http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/index.html
http://www.lcc.gc.ca/default-en.asp?lang_update=1
http://www.mpcc-cppm.gc.ca/index_e.html
http://www.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/prg/cp/ncps-en.asp

UK
is DirectGov the government website?

China
http://www.doj.gov.hk/
http://www.chinatoday.com/law/a0.htm
http://www.legislation.gov.hk/index.htm

Last edited by Mithrandir on 28 Feb 2006, 2:45 am, edited 8 times in total.

well i know Im gonna get the brunt of what ever here but im going out on a limb and say that captial punishment, especally in henious crimes, is called for.

What do you mean 25 cent solution? That's a ripoff! States shouldn't be paying any more than 20 cents to execute an inmate. If they got a great bulk rate on ammo, they could do it for as little as 4 cents an inmate.

Inflation

anyway, I will post more later.
Can you give me some sites to post?
Justice, Crime and Punishment is a very broad topic.

I used to be on the fence about capital punishment, but several things lately have made me go firmly to the left and am now very much against it. One was Stanley Tookie Williams who was the guy who founded the gang The Crips in LA. It was recent. I thought there was enough remorse and positive stuff left in that guy that killing him was wrong. And I know it's rare, but the fact that sometimes we don't know for certain whether they are actually guilty (look at OJ Simpson) is enough to convince me that killing an innocent person isn't worth it.

The other thing that pushed me over the edge was reading a set of books set during the 18th century where beheading was common. It just creeped me out too much. What we do today isn't much worse than beheading.

Besides, I've worked in a county jail and know how unpleasant life can be "inside', and that was just a little county jail. Death row can't be fun. I think that punishment is good, but killing is wrong regardless.

Justice. Capital punishment.

Very different things. Can they coincide? I'd defend a "yes" to that.
I have no great problems with a death penalty as a just sentence for certain crimes.

But justice requires it to be applied correctly, and that's not going to happen evey time.
Every system is subject to error.
(That isn't a simple argument against it, but a call for a careful weighing of consequences...
"You can't have capital punishment! Sometimes innocent people get killed!"
"Well, if that's the reason, we'll have to stop people driving too.")

People get unjustly killed every day: officially is only one route to that.


Justice also requires a fair, balanced, trial procedure and I'm far from certain that's as well established as it should be. And until that's sorted, I have doubts about a sentence that cannot be repealed.

I've already factored in inflation. I currently get the 7.62x39mm Russian rounds for my SKS for $0.17 each, and if I used surplus communist block ammo, I could get the price down to $0.07-$0.10 per round. That's without a case discount since there aren't any places that do that locally. Now if the government were to buy ammo for executions, they would probably use either a 9mm or a .223. Not only are they dirt cheap to begin with because they are small and the market is flooded with them, but the government would get a bulk rate on that as well.

Do you need me to post a link for the retail price of different cases of ammo?

If capital punishment were done my way, the death penalty could be extended to sex offenders again, as well as narcotics suppliers and smugglers, pimps, and anyone convicted of promoting gang activity. Death row would only have about a 6-24 hour wait, which means only holding cells would be required for them to wait, eat their lst meal, and occasionally a couple death row inmates woud spend the night there. Since executing large numbers of people has been known to cause psychological issues after a while, perhaps citizens could opt to serve on a firing squad or give them a pistol and do it production line for a day instead of jury duty, because it's not uncommon for people to be about ready to leave a body count in their wake after waiting around all week for jury duty anyway.

Capital Punishment it is in the Bible and it has been used by nations in the past, present, and will be in the future too. Justice is in the eye of the beholder. What make one nation better for or not using it or not. Nothing is more right or wrong in the end on this subject. We as individuals make such a decision and nations make that decision too. So what is right or wrong You tell Me can You any of You.

I agree that "years on death row" is a bizarre phenomenon. But if we're going for that, with little time for mistakes or new evidence to show up, I suggest justice requires a few other things in place too:

No death penalty on a majority verdict.
Equal resources for the defence case:
comparable lawyer, time and money as against the prosecution.

No, I don't agree with Capital Punishment. In my opinion, it's only a sorry excuse for revenge and as the old adage goes: two wrongs don't make a right. And I read somewhere (I'll have to find it-- I think it was on stats of an extensive website on capital punishment) that with all the appeals that most inmates have on death row, it's actually cheaper to house an inmate for life as opposed to the appeals and finally (as is usually the case) putting them to death. So the ol' "give the tax payers a break" isn't necessarily true, provided the inmate goes through the appeals process.

Not that it's always possible, but I think a greater focus on "correction" rather than "punishment" is more humane. And when correction isn't possible (which I'm sure happens often), then further imprisonment makes the most sense. This, of course, would cost more money. But there's a point in human society when the good health of the society-- which even includes the prisoner, him/herself-- must be put foremost before monetary profit.

There are plainly some people who deserve to die. However, there are too many people being executed, so I would say substitute lifetime in prison with no possibility of parole. An innocent person can always be let out of prison, but can't be brought back to life.

As to the person who used the analogy with traffic deaths and asked "Then should we prohibit driving?" There is a difference between the normal risks of carrying out an activity, and an activity sanctioned by the government and enforced upon unwilling participants. This is why the law says plainly "beyond the shadow of a doubt" in capital cases. However, *as applied*, the "beyond a shadow" too often seems to mean "He's bound to be guilty or he wouldn't be here."

So - for the time being - no.

Do you really trust your government so much that you are willing to give them the right to kill people (including you?)

That's a good point. Although I believe in principle in the death penalty, I know in reality the legal system exists to protect the interests of the ruling elite (I just love that phrase), and to keep the proles quiet by providing the illusion that there is actually justice. A case in point would be those two fisherman arrested for rape of a British woman in Thailand. It just seems all too quick and convenient.

no, sean. absolutely not.

Vivi
(as Admin)

The "25 Cent Solution" is an expression from Chinese method of punishment.
They send the bill to the family.

I was thinking of links to do with justice.
The poll is just one topic of justice.
I think we can change the poll so I will change it when we have discussed enough on the topic.

Do you know any sites on US Law?

So what is justice in the end?

Can anybody really tell what is justice?

So far what I have read here on nothing really yet about justice?