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OnlyaPhase
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09 Nov 2009, 2:39 pm

My first post on the P,P, and R forums, so I wanted to make it somewhat interesting and thought provoking lol. I was doing some thinking the other day, and I've always noticed religion as trying to be the "pure" institution left (can't trust them politicians).

But if the message of "God" or the "creator" as we can precieve him was to love eachother, how come there are so many religions? I understand people have different points of view but some are so radically different what are the benefits of so many religions?

The only clear effect of the numerous religions I see is MORE discrimination. We are now profiling againist religions now too? How can we blindly say we serve a god one minute when we are judging someone elses beliefs and trying to stay with our own?
We all want answers but are we willing to further distance ourselves from others, againist gods word?

This society makes no sense...



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09 Nov 2009, 3:16 pm

Religion makes no sense. Organised religions (all of them) exist to make money or power for themselves and their leaders. They are a form of control over the people. People in many countries are brainwashed from birth into their particular brand of religion and taught that theirs is the one true religion. Few people see through all this crap and think for themselves.


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MussoliniBismarck
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09 Nov 2009, 3:31 pm

I love it when it when religious people have arguments with each other over an aspect of something. They never seem to realize that they, along with everyone else just wasted a large portion of their life on something that boils down to 'My god has a bigger *&%# then your god'.



Oregon
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09 Nov 2009, 3:37 pm

It's all theory...
We have to make up our own minds based on our personal experiences. People with like experiences tend to form groups. Who am I to say if one group is wrong or right? The minister in the church I attended as a youth has 2 Masters & a Doctorate and believes in God. He is certainly more educated than me. I spoke with him the other day, his faith is still strong.

The older I get, the more I realize that we don't know... our greatest minds have barely scratched the surface of how all this life, universe, ect.. works. People used to believe for a fact that the Earth was the center of the universe and the heavens rotated around us... and that was just a few hundred years ago.

We could go on a science/religion bash thread.. but I do not see a point to arguing over views & theories.

You can't prove to me there is or is not a God... nor could I prove it to you.


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MussoliniBismarck
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09 Nov 2009, 3:45 pm

Oregon, if you cannot prove a God, then you shouldn't make claims about it. It's illogical. :wink:



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09 Nov 2009, 3:50 pm

Only one problem caused by religion?

I see several. Divisiveness, disrespect, discrimination, fear, hostility, violence, bigotry, war, death.

ruveyn



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09 Nov 2009, 4:47 pm

OnlyaPhase wrote:
But if the message of "God" or the "creator" as we can precieve him was to love eachother, how come there are so many religions? I understand people have different points of view but some are so radically different what are the benefits of so many religions?

Massively different metaphysical programs can create more information by criticizing each other and forming different conceptions of reality and borrowing these ideas. Massively different metaphysical programs can also force people to learn to bridge larger gaps when learning to love others, which actually means that more discrimination could actually be a plus, sort of like how a heavier weight to lift is actually a plus when exercising.

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This society makes no sense...

No, it doesn't. When one fully recognizes the nonsense of reality, it will also come to seem a bit crazier.



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09 Nov 2009, 4:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Only one problem caused by religion?

I see several. Divisiveness, disrespect, discrimination, fear, hostility, violence, bigotry, war, death.

ruveyn


And if any religion with a god who is omniscient and omnipotent is proved correct then every single bad thing to ever happen in the history of time is proved to be that god's fault and the followers are guilty of being the criminal's accomplice.



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09 Nov 2009, 5:18 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Religion makes no sense. Organised religions (all of them) exist to make money or power for themselves and their leaders. They are a form of control over the people. People in many countries are brainwashed from birth into their particular brand of religion and taught that theirs is the one true religion. Few people see through all this crap and think for themselves.

I doubt that organized religions all emerged and are sustained that cynically. It could be true that they are, but honestly, I think if you look carefully, you will see too many somewhat irrational acts that could only be born of religious ideals rather than corporate calculations.

MussoliniBismarck wrote:
Oregon, if you cannot prove a God, then you shouldn't make claims about it. It's illogical. :wink:

Ok, so it is illogical to make claims about things that one cannot prove? First off, what constitutes proof? Secondly then, can you then prove logic? How about the existence of other people's minds(not their brains, but rather that these other people aren't just sophisticated robots)? Can you then talk about particular statistics? After all, statistics don't prove anything, despite whatever information they provide. Unobserved objects posited by physicists? Those can't be proven, but still can be talked about.

It seems to me that your verificationism(in order to talk about something, you must verify it) actually turns out to be more illogical than the view that you are criticizing.



OnlyaPhase
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09 Nov 2009, 5:34 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
No, it doesn't. When one fully recognizes the nonsense of reality, it will also come to seem a bit crazier.


"Life is a tradegy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think"


Oregon, I did not mean to turn this into a religion bash, I simply was wondering why people put up with discrimination on such a massive scale and never question why? People are so quick to join the bandwagon as long as they get a place to sit with thier friends at lunch (my metaphor for fitting in).

But religion is the most hateful thing out there, ironicly. Money comes a close second, but only because I don't think it's been aroun d as long(barter system anyone)? It's funny how a religious person will claim they are not a racist, but are clearly a "regilionist" (see what I did there?).



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09 Nov 2009, 6:15 pm

TheOddGoat wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Only one problem caused by religion?

I see several. Divisiveness, disrespect, discrimination, fear, hostility, violence, bigotry, war, death.

ruveyn


And if any religion with a god who is omniscient and omnipotent is proved correct then every single bad thing to ever happen in the history of time is proved to be that god's fault and the followers are guilty of being the criminal's accomplice.


How so?


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OnlyaPhase
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09 Nov 2009, 6:24 pm

^I always figured it was kinda crazy and egotistical for us to think that the almighty creator would listen and care about every single one of our problems. If there is a god I think he forgot about us long ago, I mean have a new god now anyways, MONEY....



Oregon
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09 Nov 2009, 7:51 pm

OnlyaPhase wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
No, it doesn't. When one fully recognizes the nonsense of reality, it will also come to seem a bit crazier.


"Life is a tradegy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think"


Oregon, I did not mean to turn this into a religion bash, I simply was wondering why people put up with discrimination on such a massive scale and never question why? People are so quick to join the bandwagon as long as they get a place to sit with thier friends at lunch (my metaphor for fitting in).

But religion is the most hateful thing out there, ironicly. Money comes a close second, but only because I don't think it's been aroun d as long(barter system anyone)? It's funny how a religious person will claim they are not a racist, but are clearly a "regilionist" (see what I did there?).



But the OP is geared at the negative side of 'religion'. Look at all the good that is being done daily in the service of 'religion'. If you look at the core principles, they are mirrored in almost every major religion. From Christianity to Wicca.. you are encouraged to do good things and make the world a better place... Love is the basis of all major religions.

Yes there are some wacko sects of all religions; some did terrible things... just as we have nutty leaders of countries. Look at Europe’s invasion of the Americas.. we did some terrible things, we won... but I am not proud of how we did it. Hitler, Napoleon, Cheng, Hrorekr, Caesar, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, and Alexander the Great.. name a religious leaders that did as much damage.

Yes the Christians had the Crusades & the Inquisition... and Muslims have battled each other from the beginning of their religion. But it all pales in comparison to the carnage of the great conquerors of history.


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09 Nov 2009, 9:58 pm

Oregon wrote:
If you look at the core principles, they are mirrored in almost every major religion.


Core principals. I agree. In fact, they can be boiled down to a simple meme. The meme is earnest and always with the best of intentions.

Rule 1: Anyone who does not believe in our god will be punished now and forever.
Rule 2: It is your duty to save others from that suffering.

The metaphorical devil, however, is in the details. The means always seem to justify the end.


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OnlyaPhase
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09 Nov 2009, 10:02 pm

Yea religion has it's 'pros' that bring people together inside there church. But my problem is if all the religions are from the same core then why are they treated so vastly different? I see more discrimination towards religion then race nowadays. Now we are profiling Muslims and I hear comments all the time.

Religion may have it's good intentions but we have turned it into a form of surperiority, " my religion is better than yours".

That is hate and I see no pros to it.



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09 Nov 2009, 10:51 pm

Consider them something like different schools of philosophy, accept that they're filled with different people who claim divine revelation of certain things (which, these people may have very well in fact believed - could have been an extremely real experience to them).

Apparently from the many religions that never occured, people considered just crazy, or ideas that only made it so far it seems to come down to a few factors:

1) they're experience or beliefs had to give them insight into the character of the human condition, ie. they had to seem wise beyond their stature

2) they had to have a schematic of reality offered that really gelled with the people and conditions of the times that they spoke to

3) whether luck or actual divine inspiration (initial stapling of their school of thought could have been either 'miracles' or just many many dedicated years on the soap box), it was a particular play of events that not only gave people confirmation but also put them in all the right places at all the right times.

4) they're beliefs were highly contagious in one of two ways - either that the society found the ideas extremely helpful in combating animal anxiety as well as making the best of their human/societal side possible (ie. more eastern religions), proselatising by social pressure or force - the earlier Abrahamic religions tended to be a bit of all of the above (though more force with each successive rendering).


As far as more intelligent followers of any of these though, your right, one can even be agnostic on what happens when they die - its more about how they wish to see themselves, their potential, and proper direction in terms of how they live. That can run amok badly, then again though the amount of variables that humanity seems to embody leads to a problem with any one-size-fits-all methodology. Some people will be far better as theists, some will be far better as atheists or theistically indifferent, its really a journey of self-optimization.