Faux Cladogram, the evolution of the Semi Truck?

Page 1 of 2 [ 19 posts ] Go to page 1, 2 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

12 Jan 2010, 12:34 am

If these could reproduce, would this cladogram have validity in regard to the origin of the Heavy Truck?

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

12 Jan 2010, 7:18 am

No, it would not. You'd have to make side chains for several of the vehicles listed, and the direct "ancestor" of the automobile and light/heavy trucks would have to be horse and buggy.

But I suspect you have a different sort of point here.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

12 Jan 2010, 7:35 am

Trucks do not evolve. Trucks do not replicate and the selection of truck design is done by humans, not nature. So the term evolution does not apply. Change, yes; evolution no.

ruveyn

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

12 Jan 2010, 7:51 am

ruveyn wrote:

Trucks do not evolve. Trucks do not replicate and the selection of truck design is done by humans, not nature. So the term evolution does not apply. Change, yes; evolution no.

ruveyn

Actually, that's debatable. I does not matter where the agents of change originate - whether it be the environment or the market place agented by the sales department. Forces that influence the modification of a dynamic structure design can originate anywhere to create a viable product. If it changes towards acceptance then that is evolution.

Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,223
Location: Alberta Canada

12 Jan 2010, 7:54 am

ruveyn wrote:

Trucks do not evolve. Trucks do not replicate and the selection of truck design is done by humans, not nature. So the term evolution does not apply. Change, yes; evolution no.

ruveyn

He knows that. He used vehicles to remove any misconceptions that he was talking about anything but clades in general. Unfortunately that concept when over your head.

Keet, as Orwell put it, several of those things evolved in parallel and you'd need branches. Example: as automobile engines got smaller, people put them into bikes creating motor bikes. So the motorbike is a parallel clade evolving similar solutions, such as tires, engines. Also, the unicycle came after the bicycle, and the car comes from the cart and carriage.

So no, the clade wouldnt be linear, nor in that order.

_________________
davidred wrote...
I installed Ubuntu once and it completely destroyed my paying relationship with Microsoft.

DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

12 Jan 2010, 4:54 pm

I looked at this, laughed, thought how ridiculously simplistic, read the comments, they covered the salient points, so I decided to find the source of this ridiculous clade.
And surprise surprise it comes from http://creation.com

Really Keet, I would a understand sunday school kid falling for this kind of nonsense, but an intelligent adult!! !! !! !!
Of course IQ has no bearing on the ability for rational thought. If it did you and Safarti would not believe this

_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

12 Jan 2010, 5:28 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

Yes, and the article it comes from is this, http://creation.com/creationists-hypocritical , if you have the ability to look at the context, there you go.

As for your picture from Ken Ham's Creation museum, do you even understand the contemporaneity of dinosaurs with human's issue? If the Flood of Noah is where a majority of the polystratic fossils were laid down, and dinosaurs are included in these types of fossils, then dinosaurs had to be alive prior to the Flood. If dinosaurs were alive prior to the Flood, then they were contemporaneous with humans. Such is an issue with internal consistency, in regard to catastrophic geology. It does not matter if it is consistent with uniformitatian geological interpretation in this issue, but rather how it affects catastrophic geological interpretation. Now is it impossible to live on a planet where hungry predators exist? No it is absolutely outright heretically impossible! Right? I differ. Though the therapods were certainly deadly, and one would not want to be living too close to them, it is not impossible to live at the same time as them without being affected by them.

Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,223
Location: Alberta Canada

12 Jan 2010, 5:38 pm

Guess I owe ruveyn an apology then.

Parakeet, do your creationist friends really think the motorbike led to the the car, and that the wagon was not a parent invention?

_________________
davidred wrote...
I installed Ubuntu once and it completely destroyed my paying relationship with Microsoft.

JetLag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Aug 2008
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,762
Location: California

12 Jan 2010, 6:33 pm

Some people believe that toads, monkeys, Elvis Presley, etc., actually came from a dot "." about the size of a period that comes at the end of a sentence, and that the dot came from chance, which came from nothing.

_________________
Stung by the splendor of a sudden thought. ~ Robert Browning

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

12 Jan 2010, 6:49 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

As for your picture from Ken Ham's Creation museum, do you even understand the contemporaneity of dinosaurs with human's issue? If the Flood of Noah is where a majority of the polystratic fossils were laid down, and dinosaurs are included in these types of fossils, then dinosaurs had to be alive prior to the Flood. If dinosaurs were alive prior to the Flood, then they were contemporaneous with humans. Such is an issue with internal consistency, in regard to catastrophic geology.

Internally consistent, perhaps. Consistent with available evidence? Not even close.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

ASPER
Deinonychus

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 354

12 Jan 2010, 6:54 pm

JetLag wrote:

Who are these people?

Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,223
Location: Alberta Canada

12 Jan 2010, 6:55 pm

JetLag wrote:

You gotta allow them their bible nonsense.

_________________
davidred wrote...
I installed Ubuntu once and it completely destroyed my paying relationship with Microsoft.

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

12 Jan 2010, 6:56 pm

Orwell wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Internally consistent, perhaps. Consistent with available evidence? Not even close.

The evidence, in regards to geology is the same for either uniformitarian or catastrophic geology. It is how it is interpreted that matters, and which interpretation best explains the available evidence. You claim that the contemporaneity of humans with dinosaurs is inconsistent with available data, is that correct? Or do you claim that the catastrophic interpretation is inconsistent with the available data?

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

12 Jan 2010, 6:57 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

You claim that the contemporaneity of humans with dinosaurs is inconsistent with available data, is that correct? Or do you claim that the catastrophic interpretation is inconsistent with the available data?

Yes.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

12 Jan 2010, 7:05 pm

Orwell wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Yes.

How?

JetLag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Aug 2008
Age: 75
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,762
Location: California

12 Jan 2010, 7:58 pm

ASPER wrote:

JetLag wrote:

Who are these people?

Followers of Chucky Darwin.

_________________
Stung by the splendor of a sudden thought. ~ Robert Browning

Page 1 of 2 [ 19 posts ] Go to page 1, 2 Next

Jump to:

Faux Cladogram, the evolution of the Semi Truck? Post Reply New Topic

Faux Cladogram, the evolution of the Semi Truck?