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Fetal Rights & Forced Medical Treatment: Your Opinion?

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Sand
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25 Mar 2010, 1:14 am

MissConstrue wrote:
Unless fully developed, I see fetuses merely as a bundle of cells or a tadpole/insect with a tail.

People have these grandiose delusions about human beings having souls or being unique because their in some way alive. While I can certainly relate to an extent of a human with all their nerves and cognitive brain functioning, it's pretty pointless to try and argue with someone who thinks humans have more feelings than a dog or cat being put to sleep b/c they're "pests".

Strange in the way we value human life even in a fetal/fatal state over other living organisms.

I know I'm going to get bashed for having said this so I'm going to run for the nearest exit.............................................Image


Hey, lady, anybody tries to bash you for loving other forms of life will get bashed by me. Grab my hand and we'll love the world together.



leejosepho
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25 Mar 2010, 6:41 am

MissConstrue wrote:
Strange in the way we value human life even in a fetal/fatal state over other living organisms.


It would be misleading to say I place the same value on a bug or whatever as on a fetus, for I do not really presume to place/determine the value of either. For me, the issue is more about whether we even consider ourselves to be of any value, and it is that "value", if any, I believe I have no right to claim unless equally ascribed to all else.


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leejosepho
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25 Mar 2010, 6:47 am

LKL wrote:
As for ' what the fetus might say,' a la leejosepho, the fetus lacks not only the physiological capability for speech but the mental wiring necessary for thought and even, for that matter, the mental equipment necessary to desire thought and speech. It would say nothing even if it physiologically could.


Okay, so split hairs if that entertains you.

If you had an opportunity today, what might you say about having been considered for abortion in the past?

Some folks will say they wish that actually had been their fate, but not all, and there is no way any of the others of us could have foreknown either way.


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Sand
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25 Mar 2010, 7:15 am

leejosepho wrote:
LKL wrote:
As for ' what the fetus might say,' a la leejosepho, the fetus lacks not only the physiological capability for speech but the mental wiring necessary for thought and even, for that matter, the mental equipment necessary to desire thought and speech. It would say nothing even if it physiologically could.


Okay, so split hairs if that entertains you.

If you had an opportunity today, what might you say about having been considered for abortion in the past?

Some folks will say they wish that actually had been their fate, but not all, and there is no way any of the others of us could have foreknown either way.


So evidently when they have no capacity for making that decision someone with the capacity has to make the decision.



LKL
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25 Mar 2010, 2:56 pm

leejosepho wrote:
If you had an opportunity today, what might you say about having been considered for abortion in the past?


My mother is and was pro-choice. I am glad to know that I was a wanted child, and not a burden on my mother.



PLA
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25 Mar 2010, 4:11 pm

LKL wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
If you had an opportunity today, what might you say about having been considered for abortion in the past?


My mother is and was pro-choice. I am glad to know that I was a wanted child, and not a burden on my mother.


Hmm. It would be a bummer if my life ended now. If it had ended back then, it wouldn't have bothered me as much. If a wizard in a time machine came to the present time to threaten me with abortion, the psychological impact would be more similar to that of my life ending now than to that of having already been aborted.
I would be more disturbed by the time travel scenario, but mostly because of the added insult of erasing all memory of me. It would have the psychological impact of threatening to murder me, cover up all traces of me and zap everyone I know with a memory eraser.

Note: I was very much wanted. Ordered, even. In vitro fertilisation. BTW, does that make me holy and spotless? :P


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iamnotaparakeet
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25 Mar 2010, 4:18 pm

I am a time traveler. I have a time machine on my wrist, even now.



leejosepho
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25 Mar 2010, 4:24 pm

PLA wrote:
Note: I was very much wanted. Ordered, even. In vitro fertilisation. BTW, does that make me holy and spotless? :P


Nah, just sterile!


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iamnotaparakeet
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25 Mar 2010, 4:30 pm

leejosepho wrote:
PLA wrote:
Note: I was very much wanted. Ordered, even. In vitro fertilisation. BTW, does that make me holy and spotless? :P


Nah, just sterile!


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25 Mar 2010, 7:51 pm

Is that that fictional-future-where-abortion-is-illegal sci fi show? Where the character who had an abortion keeps on having halucinations of infants?



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25 Mar 2010, 11:23 pm

Forced medical care is unconstitutional. Pro-Life, Pro- Choice or whatever. Its all up to the women.



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25 Mar 2010, 11:26 pm

gamefreak wrote:
Forced medical care is unconstitutional. Pro-Life, Pro- Choice or whatever. Its all up to the women.


If a person is declared insane or incompetent in a legal fashion he can be medically treated without his consent.

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26 Mar 2010, 12:26 am

leejosepho wrote:

Okay, so split hairs if that entertains you.

If you had an opportunity today, what might you say about having been considered for abortion in the past?


Actually for me, I think the opposite. I often ask myself how great it would've been if my mom aborted me...I mean I wouldn't have have known anyway.

I wouldn't have had to experience the physical and mental pain of daily life such as death, AS, alcoholism, abuse, financial hardships.

Guess it could've been worse though, I could've been born into a drug infested or a home where I was unwanted and to be put up for adoption or taken care of in foster homes. And I know all too well about the damage foster homes can do to kids. So I don't exactly see how anyone would think life was a gift unless they were born into a body that wasn't mentally or physically defective and in an environment that was socio-ecologically sustainable. Let's not forget the other factors that go on in said environment if one is born of gender, race, status, sexual orientation that gets preferential treatment by a human infested society.


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Sand
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26 Mar 2010, 12:36 am

MissConstrue wrote:
leejosepho wrote:

Okay, so split hairs if that entertains you.

If you had an opportunity today, what might you say about having been considered for abortion in the past?


Actually for me, I think the opposite. I often ask myself how great it would've been if my mom aborted me...I mean I wouldn't have have known anyway.

I wouldn't have had to experience the physical and mental pain of daily life such as death, AS, alcoholism, abuse, financial hardships.

Guess it could've been worse though, I could've been born into a drug infested or a home where I was unwanted and to be put up for adoption or taken care of in foster homes. And I know all too well about the damage foster homes can do to kids. So I don't exactly see how anyone would think life was a gift unless they were born into a body that wasn't mentally or physically defective and in an environment that was socio-ecologically sustainable. Let's not forget the other factors that go on in said environment if one is born of gender, race, status, sexual orientation that gets preferential treatment by a human infested society.


I actually was born into a very durable and efficient body with a reasonable mind and a life that had it's tragedies but was endurable and being alive has given me great pleasure. But if I had been aborted for good reason I never would have been aware of any of this and it wouldn't have bothered me a bit.



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26 Mar 2010, 2:23 am

Mix of the two previous answers here. <.<



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26 Mar 2010, 5:16 am

leejosepho wrote:

Okay, so split hairs if that entertains you.

If you had an opportunity today, what might you say about having been considered for abortion in the past?


As it happens I was, my mother was well into her thirties, and had her kids, mum and dad had been on the ropes and reconciled and done some horizontal folk dancing to celebrate, and her pregnancy with me was the result. Had the foetus that became me been aborted I would have had absolutely no idea about it and therefore would not have cared. The fact that I am alive today and able to write this makes no difference, for me to think "phew, that was a close shave" would be plain stupid.


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