Halal / non-Halal meat slaughter. What's the crack?

Post Reply New Topic

I would like to know which method is humane; whether one or the other, both or neither. For once i decided to take the issue of animals being or not being stunned before slaughter seriously. I have read some conflicting, biased articles from both sides and i still don't understand.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm

http://www.farmersguardian.com/home/bus ... 93.article (reader's comments-Anonymous | 21 September 2010 12:59 pm)




my conclusion is that both methods are humane but i would to know exactly "how humane" and if the answer is "somewhat" then i need to assess whether eating meat is a good idea at all. your well informed, non inflammatory thoughts please :)

It depends whether you see "humaneness" as an absolute or relative concept. If it is absolute, than anything below a certain threshold is acceptable, if it is relative, than anything even slightly in excess of the least painful method known is objectionable as an infliction of "unnecessary" suffering even if that is not the intent.

As for assessing whether eating meat is "a good idea," the only reason to not eat meat because of the killing method is if it bothers you. It sounds like it doesn't really but you think that maybe it should. I don't see much point in trying to cultivate that sentiment.

You aren't going to find a lot of stores that only sell cow carrion or only butcher cows as assisted suicide after determining them mentally stable but determined to die.

Veterinary studies are unclear.

A 1978 study of comparitive methods on sheep and calves suggests that after ritual cutting, unconsciousness occurs in calves within 10 seconds, and brain death within 23 seconds, and 10 seconds and 14 seconds for sheep. No animal presented a reaction to the cut. Hypovolemia will cause tachycardia and increase in respiratory rate, but these did not appear to correllate to any conscious reaction in the EEG.

In the same study, captive bolt stunning presented severe general disturbance in the EEG--likely consistent with loss of sensation. This was not universally observed among the sheep, and at least one was still reactive to pain stimuli after 200 seconds. Two sheep presented cerebral cortex activity in one half of the brain after stunning and until bloodletting. All animals presented reactions to bloodletting cut (d and e waves).

On the other hand, the AVMA prohibits exsanguination as a sole method of euthenizing an animal, relying on a 1984 study in Research in Veterenary Science.

The way I've seen pigs killed around here is they just shoot them in the head with .22 at close range. I'd say thats pretty much instant death. I've also heard of hanging them upside down by their back legs and cutting their throats but that takes longer so it's probably more painful.

The problem with firearms as a method of slaughter is that what works on a pig requires significantly more force in order to work on a cow. Furthermore, a badly placed shot may not only fail to kill the animal, but inflict significantly greater pain, and also render the animal unfit for human consumption.

In addition, firearms are only a viable means when dealing with slaughter of a single animal. The gunshot killing the first animal will create fear and anxiety among those who remain to slaughter.

I clean cut through the catatoid and the blood drains out of the brain in a second or two. Unconsciousness is immediate. That is the way kosher slaughter of beef and goats is done.

ruveyn

That's how we do it on the ranch if we can't just chop of the head with one, clean blow, but for a major operation, this can be problematic. However, like you say, this is how the Jews do it... I'm sure if they put their minds to it, the major slaughterhouses could make it work. I don't think they really care.

The science suggests that it's more like 10 seconds. Let's not exaggerate.

The modern method is a blow to the head administered by a compressed air hammer. This renders the animal unconscious. Then the animal is hoisted upside down and its caratoid arteries are severed. No pain or little pain. The animal is knocked out and then bled.

ruveyn

Last edited by ruveyn on 20 Jun 2012, 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In the days when I spent a lot of time arguing with ARAs on the internet, one of them posted one of those 'hidden camera' videos in response to an argument I made about kosher slaughter being humane. It showed a cow having its throat cut out - and I do mean cut out - and then dumped on the floor, where it heaved itself to its feet and then staggered around in its own growing puddle of blood for at least a minute before I turned the video off. It was not 'humane' by any stretch of the word.

pig slaughter in denmark uses a pit filled with co2 to render the pigs unconscious, almost immedieately after they come out fo the pit they pierce the major arteries in the neck with the animal hanging head down, death is quick and the animal is already unconscious when the bloodletting occurs.

i seem to recall something about the bolts.. they don't always work.

Why don't we just get rid of ALL superstitious, religious BUNK and kill the animals the quickest way we can?

But of course brainwashed from birth Jews and Muslims would never agree to that.

A bacon sandwich anybody?
Ahhhh yes,,,,,,,,,,I forgot,,,,,,,,,,,you BOTH think each other is a pig.

Linky to actual paper please?

Deutsche Tieraerztliche Wochenschrift vol. 85 (1978) pp. 62-66.

Various translations are available on the net, including: http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halalstudy.htm

And http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfa ... anasia.pdf

If you read the actual paper his conclusions do not match his data.

In his experimental description he states that the captive bolt instantly produces unconsciousness and an inability to feel pain compared to ritual slaughter that takes 10-13 seconds in his very, very small sample size but in his conclusion he goes on to claim that captive bolt is less efficient than ritual slaughter.

Having made his conclusions he then starts speculating about morality, religion and law which is probably why his tiny research study got him a reputation for being 'controversial'...

It is also worth noting this:



If you are unsure what a 'hydraulically operated tilting equipment' is check this out:

http://www.butina.eu/fileadmin/user_upl ... leisch.pdf

Yup, that is one giant beast of a machine doing the slaughtering.

The exception for ritual slaughter has led to slaughtering being allowed by a bloke with a knife doing a 12 hour shift, you really think a knackered bloke on minimum wage is going to perform as consistently as a big bad uber machine?