Does this arguement for god make any sense whatsoever?

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Is the arguement "Humans have not discovered every scientific phenomenon, therefore the Christian notion of a god is indisputably true." valid?
Yes 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No 100%  100%  [ 27 ]
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nodice1996
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22 Apr 2010, 2:36 pm

One of my friends used this argument to "prove" god exists:
"Humans have not discovered every scientific phenomenon, therefore the Christian notion of a god is indisputably true."
Those were not his exact words, but it is what he later claimed was true based on his original statement.


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Lecks
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22 Apr 2010, 2:45 pm

At most, the fact that our knowledge is finite allows for the possibility of god.



you_are_what_you_is
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22 Apr 2010, 2:48 pm

That's one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard.

Did your friend explain why the fact that humans have not discovered every scientific phenomenon favours the Christian God over the Muslim God, the Viking Gods, the Roman Gods, etc?



iamnotaparakeet
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22 Apr 2010, 3:01 pm

nodice1996 wrote:
One of my friends used this argument to "prove" god exists:
"Humans have not discovered every scientific phenomenon, therefore the Christian notion of a god is indisputably true."
Those were not his exact words, but it is what he later claimed was true based on his original statement.


Dude, that argument is a strawman version of one that favors agnosticism over militant atheism.


There are much better classical arguments in favor of the existence of a Creator, such as the cosmological argument. For an Intelligent Designer, the teleological argument. For the God of the Bible, that is more of an argument based upon the historicity of the Bible itself.

People will claim that there are so many transcription errors, that it has been translated too much, that we don't have the original manuscripts and all such other things. However, we don't have the original manuscripts that Plato, Aristotle, Cicero, Euclid, or Pythagoras wrote either and it doesn't change their historicity much. People tend to say things against the Bible like that in an historical vacuum.



Quartz11
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22 Apr 2010, 4:15 pm

Just because we don't know everything about the world, doesn't mean we should stop at what we do know. That just reeks of being complacent.



iamnotaparakeet
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22 Apr 2010, 4:20 pm

Quartz11 wrote:
Just because we don't know everything about the world, doesn't mean we should stop at what we do know. That just reeks of being complacent.


Huh? Where the heck did THAT come from?



Zeek
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24 Apr 2010, 11:22 pm

Wow, your friend is an idiot. Of course we do not know every single science phenomona just like we didn't 100 years ago or we will in 100 years. There's always more to discover. That's reality not religion.



iamnotaparakeet
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25 Apr 2010, 12:33 am

"Working in a quote mine, going down, down, down. Working in a quote mine, knocking down straw men. Woo!"



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25 Apr 2010, 1:12 am

Just to be antagonistic.

By extending the statement, saying that the more science learns about natural phenomenon, we discover how little we really know. This being a recognition of the huge complexity of the phenomenon that we call nature, we can then consider the probability of such complexity happening by chance - I will assume that the more complex a system, the lower the probability that it happened by chance - therefore this statement relates to the realization by science (but not so much by scientists) that the probability of evolution being true is decreasing rapidly and science learns that it doesn't know much about the world. This being so, the converse is also also true, that the probability of nature having been created by God (I will assume that this is what is meant by 'the Christian notion of God') is increasing! Thus the probability of the existence of a Creator God is indirectly proportional to science understanding of nature - thus if we can say that modern science has revealed an infinitesimal amount of nature (which is probably pretty close to being true - (thinking that 5500 thousand years ago they had technology which we cannot even comprehend today - in some peoples view). Then we can say that the probability that a Creator exists a statistical certainty. Thus the statement is correct!

Sorry, just had to go against the flow!! ! :D



Asmodeus
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26 Apr 2010, 8:58 pm

Bones37 wrote:
Just to be antagonistic.

By extending the statement, saying that the more science learns about natural phenomenon, we discover how little we really know. This being a recognition of the huge complexity of the phenomenon that we call nature, we can then consider the probability of such complexity happening by chance - I will assume that the more complex a system, the lower the probability that it happened by chance - therefore this statement relates to the realization by science (but not so much by scientists) that the probability of evolution being true is decreasing rapidly and science learns that it doesn't know much about the world. This being so, the converse is also also true, that the probability of nature having been created by God (I will assume that this is what is meant by 'the Christian notion of God') is increasing! Thus the probability of the existence of a Creator God is indirectly proportional to science understanding of nature - thus if we can say that modern science has revealed an infinitesimal amount of nature (which is probably pretty close to being true - (thinking that 5500 thousand years ago they had technology which we cannot even comprehend today - in some peoples view). Then we can say that the probability that a Creator exists a statistical certainty. Thus the statement is correct!

Sorry, just had to go against the flow!! ! :D

Thanks for the opening.

The existence of God isn't the converse of our existence being unlikely, it's an alternative based on assumptions without evidence.
Regardless, given that life developed from a few self replicating proteins, which in themselves are small and very simple, it's extremely likely that they would happen to come into existence (thereby leading to evolution) at some point over 13.73 billion years in a space some 93 billion light years across (that being only the part we can observe) just by random chance.



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26 Apr 2010, 9:19 pm

His logic is so f***ing ret*d I can't even fathom it. I can somewhat understand certain forms of stupidity, but that I can't even grasp.



Zara
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26 Apr 2010, 10:43 pm

BS.
His logic is flawed.
Just because not everything has been discovered by science doesn't that mean that a Christian god is "indisputably" true. Indisputably true requires evidence and that requires science to discover it.

Paranormal believers try to use a similar argument for paranormal phenomenon but they usually acquiesce it to a possibility rather than fact. Usually doesn't fly either way.


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