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If you were a demon, how would you corrupt the souls of people of the world?
Promoting pornography to seduce people to unwholesome affairs 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Destroying families to corrupt children. 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Instilling people with hatred, and a desire for war and violence. 18%  18%  [ 4 ]
Using human greed to destroy virtue. 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Corrupting further the coercive powers of government. 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Removing the natural order that government provides. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Starting crazy demon cults. 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Starting relatively sane demon cults. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Weakening human wills with temptation. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Slandering good people and organizations, and promoting Godless atheism. 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Creating crazy threads with stupid polls on internet forums. 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
Giving all power in the world to Awesomelyglorious so that he might engage in his terrible plans. 23%  23%  [ 5 ]
All of the above, while playing strip Russian Roulette 14%  14%  [ 3 ]
Other 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Just show me the results. 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 22

Awesomelyglorious
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25 May 2010, 5:46 pm

Ok, let's say that one day you are walking down the street, minding your own business, strangely nobody is around at the time, and then you are solicited by a red person with horns, and donkey legs. He/She/It asks to buy your soul. You are convinced that this is a soul-buying demon of some sort.(if that seems implausible, the being does some trick that could not be done without magic) What is the minimum offer you would accept in exchange for suffering an eternity of suffering after you die? It can be anything: world peace, a turkey sandwich, etc, etc. Given that this is a demon, you should keep in mind what whatever you say as a "minimum" will be interpreted in a horrible manner unless you think it through, but this is a hypothetical, so what would you think of?

Now that you've admitted to a minimum(or the impossibility of one), is there an exchange that you would be ethically required to accept? As in, if you refuse to suffer eternally for let's say world peace, would you be a bad person? Or is there a point at which your sacrifice is morally obligatory?

(Btw, strip Russian Roulette is from this comic:
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db ... 1587#comic )



Orwell
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25 May 2010, 6:19 pm

On a more related SMBC note: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1632#comic


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ruveyn
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25 May 2010, 6:48 pm

How can one sell what does not exist?

ruveyn



Jono
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25 May 2010, 7:02 pm

ruveyn wrote:
How can one sell what does not exist?

ruveyn


I don't know. However, I think it was asked as a hypothetical scenario, assuming that souls do exist.



Sand
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25 May 2010, 7:06 pm

Value is created by buyer interest. If some alien creature offered to pay a substantial sum for something I didn't think existed I would have second thoughts about what was worthwhile.



Last edited by Sand on 25 May 2010, 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Awesomelyglorious
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25 May 2010, 7:06 pm

Orwell wrote:

Ha ha ha! I forgot about that one.



Awesomelyglorious
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25 May 2010, 7:09 pm

ruveyn wrote:
How can one sell what does not exist?

ruveyn

Well, y'know, given that the situation involves a demon, I think some willing suspension of disbelief is needed.



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25 May 2010, 7:40 pm

You do bring up an interesting point, that is, of whether it could ever be moral to do something that would place your soul in jeopardy. If you could save millions of lives (or even save millions of souls from damnation), but only by committing an unforgivable sin and thus damning yourself to Hell, would you be morally obligated to do it? I will assume the answer is "yes," because putting consideration for yourself above others to such an extreme extent would itself be sinful. So, what is the result of this apparent paradox? Does the selflessness trump the standard rules, giving you an exception where you are still saved because of your virtuous self-sacrifice? Or does it become a damned if you do, damned if you don't trap where no matter what you do you have condemned your soul?

An intriguing problem...


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psychohist
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25 May 2010, 7:55 pm

If convinced of the reality of an eternal soul, I'd briefly consider the possibility of accepting eternal damnation if my children could be guaranteed eternal happiness in heaven when they died. But then, I'd realize that demons can't offer salvation, so no deal.

I don't think there would ever be a moral obligation to accept damnation. An eternity is infinite; things like world peace would presumaly apply only to a finite number of finite lifetimes, even ignoring the fact that the world peace provided by a demon would likely not be terribly comfortable.



Awesomelyglorious
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25 May 2010, 8:03 pm

psychohist wrote:
If convinced of the reality of an eternal soul, I'd briefly consider the possibility of accepting eternal damnation if my children could be guaranteed eternal happiness in heaven when they died. But then, I'd realize that demons can't offer salvation, so no deal.

Hey, a demon could potentially offer salvation, depending on how one conceived of the whole relationship between heaven and hell. Maybe all men are saved, except those who are overly tempted/corrupted by evil or some such, and by refusing to tempt your children in the first place, they will never enter hell. Maybe if hell doesn't accept you, you automatically enter heaven.

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I don't think there would ever be a moral obligation to accept damnation. An eternity is infinite; things like world peace would presumaly apply only to a finite number of finite lifetimes, even ignoring the fact that the world peace provided by a demon would likely not be terribly comfortable.

Yes, but if the finite lifetime is a causal factor on the infinite lifetime, then there could be a justified case from a utilitarian perspective.



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25 May 2010, 8:06 pm

psychohist wrote:
I don't think there would ever be a moral obligation to accept damnation. An eternity is infinite; things like world peace would presumaly apply only to a finite number of finite lifetimes, even ignoring the fact that the world peace provided by a demon would likely not be terribly comfortable.

Then take the hypothetical situation in which you can trade your soul for someone else's (or for a large number of other people's) and save them from eternal damnation by accepting it yourself. What then?


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psychohist
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25 May 2010, 8:13 pm

Orwell wrote:
Then take the hypothetical situation in which you can trade your soul for someone else's (or for a large number of other people's) and save them from eternal damnation by accepting it yourself. What then?

I don't think I'd be morally obligated - presumably if they were going to be condemned to hell they would deserve it - but I would do it for certain sets of people - for example my children, as I alluded to.



Exclavius
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25 May 2010, 8:40 pm

Gotta be the kids...
Cause once you corrupt them, they have much more time to corrupt others before they die.
If you corrupt them properly, you can get a memetic process going, and they'll pass the corruption right on down to their children, and to their children... it's a win win win system.

Interestingly enough, if i were a god, i would do the same... oh wait, that's a moot point, cause they're the same thing.



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25 May 2010, 8:43 pm

psychohist wrote:
I don't think I'd be morally obligated - presumably if they were going to be condemned to hell they would deserve it - but I would do it for certain sets of people - for example my children, as I alluded to.

There are all sorts of ways that a being could potentially go to hell though. Let's say that all it takes is a single blasphemy or not worshiping the right spirit force, or whatever else have you. What if it is all determined by lottery?



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25 May 2010, 9:21 pm

Orwell wrote:
You do bring up an interesting point, that is, of whether it could ever be moral to do something that would place your soul in jeopardy. If you could save millions of lives (or even save millions of souls from damnation), but only by committing an unforgivable sin and thus damning yourself to Hell....

In the Roman Catholic Church, premarital sex is considered a mortal sin, so I'd do some of that even if it didn't save the world. :lol: