Hypocrite

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He bashes Arizona for their new law
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAqOyAWHM1A[/youtube]

Then he's given a podium in the people's house as a guest in the United States and then proceeds to bash Arizona for their law (2:10). To add insult to injury half of the congress stands in applause!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YobJc5cnk68[/youtube]

But President Calderón is a hypocrite.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBOuHOXo1Vk[/youtube]

For far too long Mexico has had the luxury of exporting their poverty, and I dare say foreign nationals from countries south of Mexico, into the United States.

You need them there in the US. To do all the "undesirable jobs" that the vast number of americans would not do, and instead sit around at home on the dole.

You also need Mexico to provide you with your designer label clothing, because you don't want to pay a fair price for it, and can exploit the mexicans into doing it for next to nothing. (or the Chinese, or the Haitians, or the Guatamalans or whoever else)

Maybe if you just opened up the borders, you'd see just what it is to work a day's work for a more "international average" wage.

The only reason you want to keep mexicans out, is because you KNOW it will drive your wage down, because they're willing to work more for less.

You wanna fix the economic mess you've created? Let it happen. It'll hurt like a son of a b***h for years.. maybe decades. But it will fix it.

How many people complain that they can't find a job?
Tim Horton's (or Starbucks for Americans) is always hiring... dang you gotta be pretty useless if you can't get a job there!
Oh, that's right it's below you! A mexican will gladly take that job, and turn around and contribute to the community when he does.

Your beloved free market system requires a lot of assumptions.
One of the most important assumptions in it, is that the labour market is free too.
If you have borders that have any impact on immigration... there is no free market.... Period.

Well, why not just ship em to Canada then?

The border with Mexico should be sealed, illegals should be sent back when found, and the border patrol should shoot anyone that tries to enter this country illegally. Problem solved. If you want to come to America do it the legal way.

Mexico is not our friend and we shouldn't be propping up their corrupt government.

So, you are saying that trying to get a better life in a manner that does not hurt other people in a very significant fashion is a crime worthy of death? To me this seems absurd, and ridiculously cruel. It is sort of like making execution the crime for taking an illegal drug, a measure that is pointlessly cruel and that hurts people unnecessarily.


I would respectfully disagree. Mexico is a major US trading partner, and as such should be considered a "friend" so to speak. As well, although their government is corrupt, we should not so off-handedly dismiss it as such given that Mexico's government has significantly improved. They used to be an effectual one-party government, but the election of Vicente Fox in 2000 really reflects a major turning point. Heck, the fact that Calderon is also not a PRI politician and had a highly contested election both end up being very good signs for Mexican government. Once again, the country is still corrupt, but, we shouldn't dismiss the improvements made.

We do also need to set up a legal and workable way for some of those people to work in the U.S. - the ones that various parts of the U.S. economy depends on.

Jacoby, i'll certainly agree that you should not be propping up their corrupt government.

Hrm.. wait.. no.. I have to reword that... you aren't so much propping it up, you are maintaining it's corruptness.
(not you personally i'm sure, but your gov't)

It is in the American best interest to keep the mexicans down, to a point where significant numbers wish to emmigrate to the US, legally or otherwise. There is of course a balance, if too many want to, then the sham falls apart, and too many WILL get in. But by maintaining that equilibrium, the US fills its need a) a cheap workhouse, and b) cheap domestic labour... I could argue a c) in that an economy does need an underground economy, though governments will deny it, but it buffers the "real" economy in times of economic slowdown. Mind you, the prohibition-created black market in drugs (and from there illegal firearms) should solve that issue by and of itself.

To prevent economic development in mexico, you need a corrupt government, and that is why the US has policies which actively encourage all central american nations to be corrupt. Example... Manuel Noriega, Mind you that one did get a bit out of hand.

Why is it in our interests to "keep the mexicans down", but not, say, the Canadians?


I disagree. The U.S. policies that encourage corruption in some central American nations - namely drug prohibitions - have completely different motivations.

We don't need illegal aliens anymore. The economy is not going to be what it once was for a very long time. We have American citizens what will take the jobs as janitors, trashmen, gardeners, short order cooks, etc, and they won't cause a crime wave in the process of filling those jobs either. We will probably only need some of the existing LEGAL immigrants for farm labor but even some of those jobs might even be desirable to citizens soon enough.

It would be great if we could get our industry back. Many products would be a little more expensive but there would be more money to go around due to the jobs that would be available. Not only was our economy booming when we had lots of industry here, but the economy was stable as well.

The U.S. and Mexico has had a hate-hate relationship since the Battle of San Jocinto.
Mexico is a dreadful country run by people with sub-standard ethics. It is been that way since the time of Hernando Cortez.

ruveyn

As Fecal was put in power with the help of vote fraud and George W. Bush with a platform to destroy Mexico's agricultural sector and what it left of its industry and compensate for this by exporting Mexicans to the United States, and this platform was endorsed by the Bush Administration, he is not a hypocrite. It's wrong to make a U-turn after committing oneself to receiving millions of Mexicans and using influence to put the candidate in favour of this in power in Mexico City.

kxmode, I am curious to know if you watched the videos you posted.

kxmode: We're the ones exporting poverty via our war on drugs and forcing the rest of the world to adhere to our absurd drug laws and creating black markets and cartels that corrupt the countries south of us. And there's also the bit where it seems that parts of the CIA work in cooperation with the black market cartels. We EXPORT poverty and corruption to these countries. If you don't want them here, then get rid of the absurd laws that ruin their countries and make it so dangerous.

Once the cost of labour is the same in the USA and Mexico, then immigration should stabilize.

The USA used to get most of its immigrants from Europe. But, what European in his right mind would want to migrate to the USA any more?

Of course, you will get the bulk of your immigrants from countries where people think that they can obtain a better life by emigrating. Or else to make money to send to their families back home.

I doubt that many Mexicans would be coming here for the weather or the health care.

Maybe a bit of sight-seeing.

Anyway, what's with this obsession with Mexico? About half of the new threads are about Mexico.

Actually about 100k Europeans per year become naturalized citizens.

I agree though, we need to stop funding Mexico's drug war(and their government/military) and the War On Drugs all together. Secure the border and just deal with it domestically. Let the Mexicans fend for themselves.

You're right! I'm a 'lazy mooch' for existing! Thank you for makeing my day worse.



The situations I have lived in has hurt all my life. Hah hah haaaaahhh, pretty funny, huh.

Last edited by LiendaBalla on 22 May 2010, 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No need to feel insulted if it is true.

100,000 Europeans per year? Must be from Eastern Europe. Western Europeans would be nowhere near as desperate.