Punishment or rehabilitation and reconciliation?

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donnie_darko
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06 Jun 2010, 11:08 pm

Is it better to make people pay for their crimes/sins, or to focus on healing and redirection?



Jacoby
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07 Jun 2010, 1:14 am

Depends on what the crime is. I'm not sure what your definition of punishment is either beyond already being incarcerated or if it even involves that. Most of the people who are incarcerated are in for drug related crimes which shouldn't be a crime in the first place.



visagrunt
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07 Jun 2010, 11:46 am

The question supposes that the purposes are mutally exclusive. I don't believe that they are.

Generally, criminal law has six public policy purposes:

Protection of the community, through:

1) Deterrence (both general and specific)
2) Prevention
3) Rehabilitation
4) Denunciation
5) Restoration, and

protection of the offender through procedural safeguards and limits on the exercise of state power.

None of these can effectively exist as independent purposes. The key, therefore, lies in balancing the reactive and the proactive elements of the criminal justice system.


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you_are_what_you_is
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07 Jun 2010, 12:05 pm

Definitely the second one. I share Bentham's attitude: all punishment is mischief; all punishment in itself is evil - even with regard to most terrible crimes imaginable.


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NeantHumain
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07 Jun 2010, 8:16 pm

Punishment is not really effective, so I'd have to go for rehabilitation and reconciliation where feasible.



ruveyn
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08 Jun 2010, 8:35 am

NeantHumain wrote:
Punishment is not really effective, so I'd have to go for rehabilitation and reconciliation where feasible.


What about permanent exile? The idea is to separate those who cannot behave well from the rest of us.

ruveyn



gemstone123
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08 Jun 2010, 11:15 am

It all depends. Some people can't be rehabilitated and some people just deserve to be punished.


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ruveyn
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08 Jun 2010, 12:01 pm

gemstone123 wrote:
It all depends. Some people can't be rehabilitated and some people just deserve to be punished.


That is an emotional response to wrong doing. The basic thing is to separate pathological folks from the rest of us. The death penalty is just an extreme form of separation. Jail is an intermediate form. It is of limited time. Exile for life is also separation, but unlike the death penalty it can be undone if evidence is found of a false conviction.

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iamnotaparakeet
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08 Jun 2010, 12:28 pm

If the murder was witnessed and unjustified, then the death penalty for the murderer is justified.



gemstone123
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08 Jun 2010, 12:29 pm

ruveyn wrote:
gemstone123 wrote:
It all depends. Some people can't be rehabilitated and some people just deserve to be punished.


That is an emotional response to wrong doing. The basic thing is to separate pathological folks from the rest of us. The death penalty is just an extreme form of separation. Jail is an intermediate form. It is of limited time. Exile for life is also separation, but unlike the death penalty it can be undone if evidence is found of a false conviction.

ruveyn


What that some people can't be rehabilitated successfully? That isn't entirely my opinion although the second part of my comment probably is. :) When I meant punishment though I didn't mean the death penalty although in some countries that's included. Exile for life to where? Why not just life-imprisonment?


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iamnotaparakeet
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08 Jun 2010, 12:33 pm

Here's a case of justifiable homicide:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VKdwx5AB5k[/youtube]



ruveyn
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08 Jun 2010, 2:12 pm

gemstone123 wrote:

What that some people can't be rehabilitated successfully? That isn't entirely my opinion although the second part of my comment probably is. :) When I meant punishment though I didn't mean the death penalty although in some countries that's included. Exile for life to where? Why not just life-imprisonment?


Ship them off to Tierra del Fuego which is the a**hole of creation. They are gone from us and will bother us no more. Life imprisonment costs the tax payers a lot of money. Having a penal colony is much cheaper.

ruveyn



visagrunt
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08 Jun 2010, 6:55 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Ship them off to Tierra del Fuego which is the a**hole of creation. They are gone from us and will bother us no more. Life imprisonment costs the tax payers a lot of money. Having a penal colony is much cheaper.

ruveyn


Don't you think that the Chileans or the Argentinians might object? There is no terra nullis out there, anymore.


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ruveyn
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08 Jun 2010, 7:08 pm

visagrunt wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Ship them off to Tierra del Fuego which is the a**hole of creation. They are gone from us and will bother us no more. Life imprisonment costs the tax payers a lot of money. Having a penal colony is much cheaper.

ruveyn


Don't you think that the Chileans or the Argentinians might object? There is no terra nullis out there, anymore.


We could buy it from Argentina rather cheaply.

Then we would have a reasonably safe place to put our sociopaths.

ruveyhn



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08 Jun 2010, 7:20 pm

ruveyn wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Ship them off to Tierra del Fuego which is the a**hole of creation. They are gone from us and will bother us no more. Life imprisonment costs the tax payers a lot of money. Having a penal colony is much cheaper.

ruveyn


Don't you think that the Chileans or the Argentinians might object? There is no terra nullis out there, anymore.


We could buy it from Argentina rather cheaply.

Then we would have a reasonably safe place to put our sociopaths.

ruveyhn

Yeah, don't think Argentina would agree to that. We could try Antartica, though. Or just ship them off to Alaska.


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08 Jun 2010, 8:25 pm

Form the American Foreign Legion like the old French one; anyone can join, your names is what you say it is, every mission is a suicide mission and you get shot if you try to run, but if you survive five years you get a new identity and a fresh start. Perhaps it's just my twisted sense of humor, but I rather like the idea of turning our thugs and gangbangers loose on our enemies abroad, it just feels so dang efficient.


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