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Flair
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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02 Jun 2010, 9:58 pm

Would you define yourself as religious or spiritual?

I am generally more spiritual. I see this world as this deep place that we are given to experience. It is much harder to appreciate this with all of the technology we place around us. Sometimes I enjoy just getting away from all the problems and just relax in the park and think.

Has religion helped deal with having an autism disorder?

For me religion has often felt like a thorn in my side. It feels like religion is more focused on their god/god's then what we have and the privilege it is.

Has having an autism disorder ever make you doubt your beliefs?

Multiple times however now I do view myself as believing in god.



mesona
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02 Jun 2010, 10:00 pm

spiritual, I think there is more out there then we see.


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Awesomelyglorious
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02 Jun 2010, 10:16 pm

None is more GODLESS than I! And I say this STRIDENTLY



Flair
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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02 Jun 2010, 10:19 pm

XD



Malachi_Rothschild
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02 Jun 2010, 10:25 pm

Both, and off-topic: AG's post is epic. I voted for you.



Awesomelyglorious
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02 Jun 2010, 10:27 pm

Malachi_Rothschild wrote:
Both, and off-topic: AG's post is epic. I voted for you.

YES!! !



Flair
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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02 Jun 2010, 10:29 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Malachi_Rothschild wrote:
Both, and off-topic: AG's post is epic. I voted for you.

YES!! !
Whatever keeps my first thread alive XD



auntblabby
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03 Jun 2010, 2:59 am

Flair wrote:
Would you define yourself as religious or spiritual?


spiritual. i can't follow any religion.

Flair wrote:
Has religion helped deal with having an autism disorder?


no. but spirituality has, a great deal. the thought of heaven keeps me going. if i knew for a fact that there is just null and void waiting for me at the end of my life, i'd grease the skids and end it now.

Flair wrote:
For me religion has often felt like a thorn in my side. It feels like religion is more focused on their god/god's then what we have and the privilege it is.


i find more often than not, that religious types tend to value their own privileged positions ahead of any considerations for our society's disenfranchised masses. this is the main thing which turns me off on american organized religion, this right-wing reactionary aspect of many of its members.

Flair wrote:
Has having an autism disorder ever make you doubt your beliefs?


well, i can't really pin it on autism- but at one time i could not acknowledge that there was a supreme being of infinite goodness, due to the ever-present state of evil people prospering while good people suffered, until i was introduced to the concepts of karma and reincarnation.



ruveyn
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03 Jun 2010, 5:42 am

What is spirit?

I believe everything about us is natural and physical.

ruveyn



Flair
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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03 Jun 2010, 5:58 am

ruveyn wrote:
What is spirit?

I believe everything about us is natural and physical.

ruveyn
A spirit is essentially a soul.

Spiritualism puts more focus on the soul and the souls of those around us (which often can include plants and animals as having a soul) then on worship. Spiritualism does not require a belief in an afterlife or a direction of worship. Spiritualism tends to be very here and now and how we can improve ourselves and those around us for the better.



ruveyn
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03 Jun 2010, 6:00 am

Flair wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
What is spirit?

I believe everything about us is natural and physical.

ruveyn
A spirit is essentially a soul.

.


Are you saying there is something non-physical or supernatural about us? If so what is it and what empirical evidence do you have to support that assertion?

ruveyn



Flair
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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03 Jun 2010, 6:17 am

ruveyn wrote:
Flair wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
What is spirit?

I believe everything about us is natural and physical.

ruveyn
A spirit is essentially a soul.

.


Are you saying there is something non-physical or supernatural about us? If so what is it and what empirical evidence do you have to support that assertion?

ruveyn
For starters thought is not physical.



ruveyn
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03 Jun 2010, 6:21 am

Flair wrote:
For starters thought is not physical.


Nonsense. Have yourself hooked up to an MRI machine (as I have) and you can see yourself think. Thought is the discharge of neurons, an electrochemical process. You have a great deal to learn about neurophysiology.

The quickest cure for ignorance is learning what you don't know.

ruveyn



Flair
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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03 Jun 2010, 6:33 am

ruveyn wrote:
Flair wrote:
For starters thought is not physical.


Nonsense. Have yourself hooked up to an MRI machine (as I have) and you can see yourself think. Thought is the discharge of neurons, an electrochemical process. You have a great deal to learn about neurophysiology.

The quickest cure for ignorance is learning what you don't know.

ruveyn
It is not ignorance just a different philosophical perspective. You do not need to agree with me. However keep the focus on the discussion not on the individual holding the views.

With regards to my philosophical perspective (dualism) it is just as old as the concept of materialism.

That experiment only proves that when thoughts occur that energy is also produced not that one is required for the other to exist.



Malachi_Rothschild
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03 Jun 2010, 8:07 am

[quote=reuveyn]Nonsense. Have yourself hooked up to an MRI machine (as I have) and you can see yourself think. Thought is the discharge of neurons, an electrochemical process. You have a great deal to learn about neurophysiology. [/quote]

I'm not sure it makes much sense to reduce any experience to matter. There may be a corresponding material event. It may even be the case, though it has not been proven, that the experience is caused by the biological mechanism, but the experience would still not be the biological mechanism. One need not assume some supernatural realm exists in order to allow that our experiences are not chemical reactions in our brain but it would require accepting that some of the natural world is not material. I believe that such a strongly reductive materialism as the one that you entertain tends to be a corner backed into rather than a position often arrived at through open inquiry precisely because it allows one who rejects supernaturalism to not be countered by the possibility for something else that is immaterial. But I also don't find the argument "Thoughts therefore God" particularly persuasive. If all that is meant is "Thoughts therefore maybe God" then it's not saying much at all.



AngelRho
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03 Jun 2010, 8:58 am

ruveyn wrote:
Flair wrote:
For starters thought is not physical.


Nonsense. Have yourself hooked up to an MRI machine (as I have) and you can see yourself think. Thought is the discharge of neurons, an electrochemical process. You have a great deal to learn about neurophysiology.

The quickest cure for ignorance is learning what you don't know.

ruveyn


Nonsense. The "discharge of neurons" is a physical manifestation of the underlying process of consciousness. The electrochemical process follows the thought. It is a result, not a cause. What is a real shame is that there is no way to detect the thought prior to the physical process. If there were, I'm certain that you'd find that here was a latency, however slight, between the time you think a thought and the time it registers on some monitoring equipment.

As a pianist/synthesist, I think of it largely the way my setup works. I have 3 different MIDI input devices--a digital stage piano, an EWI (wind instrument), and a foot controller--and an electric guitar. Each of these things, think of them as nerves responding to stimuli, are routed in some way to a MIDI or audio interface or, in the case of the EWI, directly to a USB port. The computer (brain) is set to respond in specific ways, by sending MIDI instructions to other devices that are also routed to the MIDI output in a sort of daisy-chain configuration: a Frequency Modulation synth, a digitally-controlled analog synth, and a sampler. These sound generating devices are really another kind of brain because they don't actually generate sound, just electrical signals that have to be processed in another kind of way. What happens next is the analog electrical signal generated by these devices is routed back into the computer, which has pre-set ways of handling them. Once the computer has processed or transformed the analog electrical signal (by converting it to a digital signal), it has to send it back to the audio interface in which a DAC changes it BACK to an analog electrical signal--from there it flows throw a wire to an amplifier that drives a monitor, by which the electrical signal is converted into a pressure wave that is suitable for human hearing.

A fun fact about MIDI is it is a SERIAL signal flow. That means only one piece of data can be processed at a time. It happens so fast that to the average listener it might as well be instantaneous. So there is a slight delay (latency) between the time a key is struck to the time it reaches the computer. It takes the same amount of time after the computer recognizes it and routes it to whatever device for that device to respond. From there is a slight delay for the analog signal to reach the computer, another slight delay to process the sound, and yet another delay to send the signal to a final output-stage device that translates the signal into something meaningful.

The problem of MIDI and audio latency is troublesome for musicians. If the system is overly complex or computer resources are limited, timing problems can be longer than half a second.

The brain and the rest of the sensory system is MUCH more complex than a MIDI system, but isn't unlike it in principle. We are aware of our thoughts because our thoughts themselves are instantaneous. Without an idea of what note or chord to play, my setup is silent. The stimulus of pressing a key, touching a plate/blowing air, picking a string, stepping on a pedal is a means through which the computer gains insight into what I want it to do: I have given it a thought. But once that thought has been expressed, there is still that momentary lapse in time before the results are experienced.

Without the thought, there is no voluntary brain activity, only what is required for physical life (why we still breathe while we're asleep). Thoughts trigger whatever part of the brain is required for specific action--motor coordination while walking, for example. But the impulses do not happen for their own sake. They happen in response to the thought. They don't answer the question "Why walk at all?" That could happen for a number of reasons--I'm hungry, I'm going to the kitchen for food. But I could just as easily decide that I'm hungry, but I'd rather just stay in bed or something. There HAS to be a tiny amount of latency between thinking the thought, the physical manifestation of a biochemical response, and follow-through (if any) with psycho-motor response.

Those reactions in the brain are NOT thoughts themselves. They are merely physical manifestations of the human will, or spirit (or soul).