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Awesomelyglorious
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02 Dec 2010, 8:27 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Wow, AG has some very latent tolitarian tendencies!! :twisted:



(... oh, and vote for me next election in June 2011).

tolitarian?? do you mean totalitarian? I am just curious. Btw, holding to a particular rule isn't totalitarian at all.

In any case, Master_Pedant, you certainly cannot deny that I have a place in the running. I have put forward great effort in my argumentation here.



Philologos
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02 Dec 2010, 8:50 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Wow, AG has some very latent tolitarian tendencies!! :twisted:



(... oh, and vote for me next election in June 2011).


Latent?



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02 Dec 2010, 9:15 am

Just to clarify - not proposing myself or anything - but I have Elephant Child syndrome [frequent in the population of Spartan dwarfs]:

Does the laurel wreath go to the most strident or to the most atheist? Or does there need to be balance?



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02 Dec 2010, 11:32 am

Philologos wrote:
Just to clarify - not proposing myself or anything - but I have Elephant Child syndrome [frequent in the population of Spartan dwarfs]:

Does the laurel wreath go to the most strident or to the most atheist? Or does there need to be balance?


To the most strident. The other is rather hard to verify.

You know really, the nominations should be done by the theists.


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Banned_Magnus
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02 Dec 2010, 12:49 pm

AG, thank you for this thread. It is hilarious and shows that Atheists do have an ideology that they faithfully believe are universal truths.



Awesomelyglorious
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02 Dec 2010, 6:59 pm

Banned_Magnus wrote:
AG, thank you for this thread. It is hilarious and shows that Atheists do have an ideology that they faithfully believe are universal truths.

Eh, the term "atheist" is more varying than that.

Look: I'll actually outline two different ways to look at atheism:
1) Atheism as a cultural group. Atheists have taken a role as a cultural group in modern society, this may be due to many reasons, but this cultural group does more than affirm just the truth of atheism, which includes an ideology full of universal truths. (like many other cultural groups for that matter)
2) Atheism as just the word. Technically, atheism isn't an ideology and it does not require universal truth.



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02 Dec 2010, 8:34 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
You know really, the nominations should be done by the theists.

I think I remember supporting Dent. Could be mistaken on that one, though. Anyone feel like necroing that poll?


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02 Dec 2010, 9:14 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Banned_Magnus wrote:
AG, thank you for this thread. It is hilarious and shows that Atheists do have an ideology that they faithfully believe are universal truths.

Eh, the term "atheist" is more varying than that.

Look: I'll actually outline two different ways to look at atheism:
1) Atheism as a cultural group. Atheists have taken a role as a cultural group in modern society, this may be due to many reasons, but this cultural group does more than affirm just the truth of atheism, which includes an ideology full of universal truths. (like many other cultural groups for that matter)
2) Atheism as just the word. Technically, atheism isn't an ideology and it does not require universal truth.


Atheism is an ideology by definition. Unless the meaning gets changed soon, they are in the same boat as the rest of the brain washed cultists.

Quote:
Today the term ideology is used in so many ways, that it is often difficult to know how to describe it. In some ways, the common, shared beliefs of a community may be considered its common sense ideology. For example, a group of people living near the wilderness might share the ideology that it is not wise to venture into the bush alone and at night. Conversely, city people, for the most part, might believe that it make sense to look both ways before crossing a street. Common sense ideology often concerns the protection of the individual and community as a whole.

Ideology can be used in a more specific sense to differentiate between different groups of thought. The ideological differences between Sunni and Shiite factions of Islam are a subject of great debate. Understanding these competing ideologies allows one more insight into how to address cultures with which one has either hostile or peaceful contact.

In US politics, the term ideology may separate the difference between Democrat and Republican, and those sharing the ideology of one group over another are likely to vote accordingly. Usually a culture has multiple political ideologies, with some less popular than others. Many have difficulty seeing past the two competing ideologies to examine other political ideologies present in the culture. For example, few Libertarians, Green Party Members, or Peace and Freedom ideologists are elected, since most think in terms of democrat and republican candidates only.


http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-ideology.htm

Quote:
An ideology is a set of ideas that constitutes one's goals, expectations, and actions. An ideology can be thought of as a comprehensive vision, as a way of looking at things (compare worldview), as in common sense (see Ideology in everyday society below) and several philosophical tendencies (see Political ideologies), or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society (a "received consciousness" or product of socialization). The main purpose behind an ideology is to offer change in society, and adherence to a set of ideals where conformity already exists, through a normative thought process. Ideologies are systems of abstract thought applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought. It is how society sees things.
wiki



Sand
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02 Dec 2010, 9:22 pm

Banned_Magnus wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Banned_Magnus wrote:
AG, thank you for this thread. It is hilarious and shows that Atheists do have an ideology that they faithfully believe are universal truths.

Eh, the term "atheist" is more varying than that.

Look: I'll actually outline two different ways to look at atheism:
1) Atheism as a cultural group. Atheists have taken a role as a cultural group in modern society, this may be due to many reasons, but this cultural group does more than affirm just the truth of atheism, which includes an ideology full of universal truths. (like many other cultural groups for that matter)
2) Atheism as just the word. Technically, atheism isn't an ideology and it does not require universal truth.


Atheism is an ideology by definition. Unless the meaning gets changed soon, they are in the same boat as the rest of the brain washed cultists.

Quote:
Today the term ideology is used in so many ways, that it is often difficult to know how to describe it. In some ways, the common, shared beliefs of a community may be considered its common sense ideology. For example, a group of people living near the wilderness might share the ideology that it is not wise to venture into the bush alone and at night. Conversely, city people, for the most part, might believe that it make sense to look both ways before crossing a street. Common sense ideology often concerns the protection of the individual and community as a whole.

Ideology can be used in a more specific sense to differentiate between different groups of thought. The ideological differences between Sunni and Shiite factions of Islam are a subject of great debate. Understanding these competing ideologies allows one more insight into how to address cultures with which one has either hostile or peaceful contact.

In US politics, the term ideology may separate the difference between Democrat and Republican, and those sharing the ideology of one group over another are likely to vote accordingly. Usually a culture has multiple political ideologies, with some less popular than others. Many have difficulty seeing past the two competing ideologies to examine other political ideologies present in the culture. For example, few Libertarians, Green Party Members, or Peace and Freedom ideologists are elected, since most think in terms of democrat and republican candidates only.


http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-ideology.htm

Quote:
An ideology is a set of ideas that constitutes one's goals, expectations, and actions. An ideology can be thought of as a comprehensive vision, as a way of looking at things (compare worldview), as in common sense (see Ideology in everyday society below) and several philosophical tendencies (see Political ideologies), or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society (a "received consciousness" or product of socialization). The main purpose behind an ideology is to offer change in society, and adherence to a set of ideals where conformity already exists, through a normative thought process. Ideologies are systems of abstract thought applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought. It is how society sees things.
wiki


To consider atheism as an ideology it must have a dogma and a consistency that runs through all adherents. Doubtlessly there are groups of atheists that agree on fundamentals but there are also atheists outside these groups who do not agree. But they all deny a deity. That is what makes them atheists but not integrated ideologists.



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02 Dec 2010, 9:27 pm

Read the definition of ideology. Catholics disagree on issues just like Atheists do. Dogma means that it is truth beyond doubt. Do you have no doubt that there was no creator or that spirits do not exist? From what I read of your posts Sand, you have no doubt that there is nothing spiritual and it is all delusional. You are delusional if you refuse to see in yourself this fact; that you cling to your presumed truth that there is no life beyond the material realm. Now, go make a silly joke about the latest atheist meme to back up your claim and protect your ideological bubble of atheism.

"All men are delusional, but he who analyzes his delusion becomes a philosopher."



Sand
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02 Dec 2010, 9:49 pm

Banned_Magnus wrote:
Read the definition of ideology. Catholics disagree on issues just like Atheists do. Dogma means that it is truth beyond doubt. Do you have no doubt that there was no creator or that spirits do not exist? From what I read of your posts Sand, you have no doubt that there is nothing spiritual and it is all delusional. You are delusional if you refuse to see in yourself this fact; that you cling to your presumed truth that there is no life beyond the material realm. Now, go make a silly joke about the latest atheist meme to back up your claim and protect your ideological bubble of atheism.

"All men are delusional, but he who analyzes his delusion becomes a philosopher."


The concept you are proposing is very similar to that syllogistic analysis where on says there is this where this is a subject for consideration and rather restricted and then there is everything else excluding "this" and that there is an equivalence between "this" and "not this". That is a huge intellectual fallacy. Religion is a very limited restricted set of mental acceptances. Not religion is a huge universe of diversity and to make the two equivalent is a mere trick of language and completely false.



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02 Dec 2010, 10:25 pm

There are new agers, hindus, catholics, mystics, muslims, they all differ in their opinion but they all hold ideologies just like atheists.



Sand
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02 Dec 2010, 10:32 pm

Banned_Magnus wrote:
There are new agers, hindus, catholics, mystics, muslims, they all differ in their opinion but they all hold ideologies just like atheists.


If they accept a deity they are unified in that and that is the point under discussion. If all atheists deny a deity that unifies them. But religions all have a dogma for that is the structure of a religion. There is no structure demanded of a disbelief in a deity.



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02 Dec 2010, 11:18 pm

What structure is there to have a belief in a deity? Theists have all different sorts of ideas that conflict with one another; more so than Atheists.

Hindus believe in many gods, Christians believe in one God, mystics tend to agree that God is unknowable, new agers differ dramatically across the board, There are all sorts of pagans...and all of these theists do not subscribe to one universal dogmatic "truth". Atheists on the other hand say pretty much the same stuff over and over and they all agree that it is a fact that spirits do not exist and there was no creator ever.

Dogma definition: An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dogma



Sand
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02 Dec 2010, 11:28 pm

Banned_Magnus wrote:
What structure is there to have a belief in a deity? Theists have all different sorts of ideas that conflict with one another; more so than Atheists.

Hindus believe in many gods, Christians believe in one God, mystics tend to agree that God is unknowable, new agers differ dramatically across the board, There are all sorts of pagans...and all of these theists do not subscribe to one universal dogmatic "truth". Atheists on the other hand say pretty much the same stuff over and over and they all agree that it is a fact that spirits do not exist and there was no creator ever.

Dogma definition: An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dogma


I did not deny there were differences in religious structures. But the denial of religion demands no structure. If you think all atheists are the same you are not very well acquainted with atheists.



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02 Dec 2010, 11:33 pm

No two snowflakes are alike and I never said they were.