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NeantHumain
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23 Jun 2010, 3:26 pm

The Republican Party is betting on big wins in the November 2010 midterm elections. Pundits have been saying that conservatives are showing more energy than liberals, many of whom may have become somewhat disillusioned with President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled 111th Congress. During George W. Bush's presidency, neoconservatism and the Christian Right held major influence, but many of today's Tea Party activists disavow aspects of the Bush administration, voicing a quasi-libertarian/anti-incumbent ideology. In some regards, I would welcome a more libertarian Republican Party (particularly on social and religious issues). I'd definitely prefer a more free-market approach than blatantly giving favors to large, established businesses, especially when these favors benefit a particular company or industry at the cost of the nation as a whole. I feel that even the Democrats have been far too willing to coddle failed business plans. Will the Republican Party change, or is all this rhetoric just the same old, same old?

Likewise, we heard plenty of inspirational speaking from Democrats in 2008, but I'm not seeing quite the change I was hoping for. Will Would Democratic losses in November signal a need to embrace real progressive change and a need to reject the coddling of Wall Street, the health-insurance industry, and the oil industry that has blocked real transformative change?

In other words, will we see the arrival of a progressive bloc and a libertarian bloc to replace two more or less pro-status quo caucuses, both now corrupted by powerful moneyed interests?



iamnotaparakeet
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23 Jun 2010, 3:34 pm

Dude, as much as I don't like the over-usage of the word "evolution", especially with the connotation of academic censorship, I was hoping to see some history of U.S. politics from the beginning and how it altered and mutilated itself over the last 234 years.



skafather84
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23 Jun 2010, 3:43 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
especially with the connotation of academic censorship



There's nothing academic about creationism.


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iamnotaparakeet
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23 Jun 2010, 3:44 pm

skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
especially with the connotation of academic censorship



There's nothing academic about creationism.


I'm not intending to go there.



iamnotaparakeet
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23 Jun 2010, 3:59 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
The Republican Party is betting on big wins in the November 2010 midterm elections. Pundits have been saying that conservatives are showing more energy than liberals, many of whom may have become somewhat disillusioned with President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled 111th Congress. During George W. Bush's presidency, neoconservatism and the Christian Right held major influence, but many of today's Tea Party activists disavow aspects of the Bush administration, voicing a quasi-libertarian/anti-incumbent ideology. In some regards, I would welcome a more libertarian Republican Party (particularly on social and religious issues). I'd definitely prefer a more free-market approach than blatantly giving favors to large, established businesses, especially when these favors benefit a particular company or industry at the cost of the nation as a whole. I feel that even the Democrats have been far too willing to coddle failed business plans. Will the Republican Party change, or is all this rhetoric just the same old, same old?

Likewise, we heard plenty of inspirational speaking from Democrats in 2008, but I'm not seeing quite the change I was hoping for. Will Would Democratic losses in November signal a need to embrace real progressive change and a need to reject the coddling of Wall Street, the health-insurance industry, and the oil industry that has blocked real transformative change?

In other words, will we see the arrival of a progressive bloc and a libertarian bloc to replace two more or less pro-status quo caucuses, both now corrupted by powerful moneyed interests?


I am a Republican and I'm hoping that in 2012 a stoic will be elected rather than an epicurean, but as for the 2010 midterm I don't know about that. I think that America needs to have at least another year's worth of Obama politics. Also, the same thing that you're saying about the Democrat-controlled Congress is basically what most conservatives said about the former Republican-controlled Congress which likewise just sat on its butt. Politicians are like that sometimes, and they don't have to worry about job security until election times approach.



NeantHumain
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23 Jun 2010, 4:00 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Dude, as much as I don't like the over-usage of the word "evolution", especially with the connotation of academic censorship, I was hoping to see some history of U.S. politics from the beginning and how it altered and mutilated itself over the last 234 years.

No, just rampant speculation on the near future (and by implication longer future) evolution of U.S. politics. U.S. politics, though often noisy, seems to maintain a stasis. We hear rhetoric of change, but the Tea Party shows strong indications of conforming to Republican orthodoxy: support for Arizona's recent anti-immigration law, a "tough on terror" approach, support for the USA PATRIOT Act, etc. These three points would push them more towards neoconservatism than libertarianism.



Jacoby
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23 Jun 2010, 4:32 pm

I don't see a major shift happening in the democratic party for awhile unless Obama loses in 2012 and they're completely out of power like the GOP is now. Obama still has very strong core support in the party with the establishment and minorities who will probably support him no matter what. The supposed progressives like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich are still begrudgingly supporting Obama too so I just have a hard time seeing a change coming. Hilary Clinton could still be waiting in the wings for another chance at the presidency too, I don't think she is any less ambitious now than she was in 2008.



jmnixon95
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23 Jun 2010, 4:46 pm

skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
especially with the connotation of academic censorship



There's nothing academic about creationism.



lol



iamnotaparakeet
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23 Jun 2010, 4:49 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I don't see a major shift happening in the democratic party for awhile unless Obama loses in 2012 and they're completely out of power like the GOP is now. Obama still has very strong core support in the party with the establishment and minorities who will probably support him no matter what. The supposed progressives like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich are still begrudgingly supporting Obama too so I just have a hard time seeing a change coming. Hilary Clinton could still be waiting in the wings for another chance at the presidency too, I don't think she is any less ambitious now than she was in 2008.


Thus at least another year of vacuous campaigning, bad policies and implementations, and inactivity otherwise will be needed. But if Obama is reelected in 2012, then Democrats will be stuck with another four years of having a bad association with them, if they mind that is.



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Jun 2010, 9:02 pm

Neanthumain, while it would be nice for US politics to get that progressive, it is very unlikely. Populism stands against both progressivism and libertarianism, and populism is popular with the populace.

(By progressive, I just mean that both libertarianism and progressivism are comparatively rationalist and forward-looking political ideas compared to many other notions.)



Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 23 Jun 2010, 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NeantHumain
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23 Jun 2010, 9:02 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Thus at least another year of vacuous campaigning, bad policies and implementations, and inactivity otherwise will be needed. But if Obama is reelected in 2012, then Democrats will be stuck with another four years of having a bad association with them, if they mind that is.

Kind of like the Republicans from the invasion of Iraq (2003) through 2009? I "came of age" during the Bush presidency (I was a junior in high school on 9/11), and Bush's botched handling of the "war on terror," among other things (e.g., Republicans' association with the Christian Right), pushed me sharply in the left/liberal direction. Most of the people I knew back in college were also opposed to Bush's handling of things.



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23 Jun 2010, 9:26 pm

There is only one thing that pops to mind: TOLD YOU SO

I wonder if Number5 has finally turned around and realizes what an utter failure Obama's corporate accomodationism was.

The benefits of being a political defensive pessimist are finally bearing fruit.



Last edited by Master_Pedant on 23 Jun 2010, 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Jun 2010, 9:30 pm

As for predictions, the Republicans will probably regain control of the House if Tea Partisan infighting doesn't destroy the Party. A few regressive Democrats will loose nomination battles to progressive Democrats. Obama will probably hire a '10s Dick Morris and shift from being a statesman to being a Slick Willie style panderer extrodinaire. And voters will utterly ignore Greco-Roman philosophy when casting their votes.



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Jun 2010, 9:59 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
And voters will utterly ignore Greco-Roman philosophy when casting their votes.

You mean you don't?



Master_Pedant
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23 Jun 2010, 10:11 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
And voters will utterly ignore Greco-Roman philosophy when casting their votes.

You mean you don't?


That was something of an ironic reference to Imanoparakeet's desire for a "stoic" to be elected rather than a " epicurean".



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Jun 2010, 10:23 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
That was something of an ironic reference to Imanoparakeet's desire for a "stoic" to be elected rather than a " epicurean".

Oh, I don't even pay attention. I get the feeling that the usage is just to throw a term around. I suppose that iamnotaparakeet can correct me on this, but I have my doubts that the distinction between the two groups is more distinctive than the distinctions that emerge from holding to certain more concrete ideas on how the world works. (particularly since both ideas are dead, and given that any invocation of them is only piecemeal anyway)