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Master_Pedant
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14 Jun 2010, 5:29 pm

Christian fundamentalists argue we need more natalism and Christian nationalism because the Muslims will FLOOD OUR DEMOGRACY DEMOGRAPHICALLY AND ENACT SHARIA LAW!! !. The facts starkly disagree.

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Muslim Birthrates Falling Worldwide May 9, 2009
Posted by tkcollier in Geopolitics, Religion.
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Iran is experiencing what may be one of the most dramatic demographic shifts in human history. Thirty years ago, after the shah had been driven into exile and the Islamic Republic was being established, the fertility rate was 6.5. By the turn of the century, it had dropped to 2.2. Today, at 1.7, it has collapsed to European levels. The implications are profound for the politics and power games of the Middle East and the Persian Gulf, putting into doubt Iran’s dreams of being the regional superpower and altering the tense dynamics between the Sunni and Shiite wings of Islam. Equally important are the implications for the economic future of Iran, which by ­mid­century may have consumed all of its oil and will confront the challenge of organizing a society with few people of working age and many ­pensioners.

The decline of Muslim birthrates is a global phenomenon. Most analysts have focused on the remarkably high proportion of people under age 25 in the Arab countries, which has inspired some crude forecasts about what this implies for the future. Yet recent UN data suggest that Arab birthrates are falling fast, and that the number of births among women under the age of 20 is dropping even more sharply. Only two Arab countries still have high fertility rates: Yemen and the Palestinian ­territories.


via The World’s New Numbers.These sharp reductions in fertility among Muslim immigrants reflect important cultural shifts, which include universal female education, rising living standards, the inculcation of local mores, and widespread availability of contraception. Broadly speaking, birthrates among immigrants tend to rise or fall to the local statistical norm within two ­generations.

In some Muslim ­countries—­Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Kuwait, and Lebanon—fertility rates have already fallen to ­near-­European levels. Algeria and Morocco, each with a fertility rate of 2.4, are both dropping fast toward such levels. Turkey is experiencing a similar trend.


http://tkcollier.wordpress.com/2009/05/ ... worldwide/

Now that we've cleared that, I see defenders of liberty and equality can now safely move on to preventing the threat of plutocrats and Christian nationalists seeking to disenfranchise (de jure or de facto) large segments of the population and instating reactionary policies to counter this supposed existential threat.

Christian nationalists, afterall, depend on low voter turnout (the 12.5% strategy) have such disproportional influence.



Tequila
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14 Jun 2010, 6:28 pm

I want freedom and liberty for the United Kingdom, whether its citizens follow a faith or not.

We can leave the EU for a start.



Flair
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14 Jun 2010, 6:29 pm

This is wonderful news



Master_Pedant
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14 Jun 2010, 6:31 pm

Flair wrote:
This is wonderful news


Christianity is growing in Africa - so too is the suffering (the failure to use contraceptives alongside the renewal of age old Christian witch hunting).



Master_Pedant
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14 Jun 2010, 6:31 pm

Tequila wrote:
I want freedom and liberty for the United Kingdom, whether its citizens follow a faith or not.

We can leave the EU for a start.


Yes, because multinationals and not such absurd things as international parliaments should run the global scene.



Tequila
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14 Jun 2010, 7:05 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Yes, because multinationals and not such absurd things as international parliaments should run the global scene.


Or even a free-market?

The EU was never asked for by the citizens of its Union; its parliament is not democratic - moreover, it breaks its own rules. It is also effectively powerless.

Time for us to repeal the European Communities Act 1972 and/or declare a UDI if necessary, like Smith did. Tell them to eff off.



sartresue
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14 Jun 2010, 7:24 pm

Before the Fall topic

I was surprised to read about this. But good news.

There are far too many human beings on Earth as it is. Many women want to limit their families, and governments should see this as a postive step in more equitable distribution of resources.


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Flair
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14 Jun 2010, 8:46 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Flair wrote:
This is wonderful news


Christianity is growing in Africa - so too is the suffering (the failure to use contraceptives alongside the renewal of age old Christian witch hunting).
I assume the papacy has made no objection (albeit they should object).



Master_Pedant
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14 Jun 2010, 8:47 pm

Flair wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Flair wrote:
This is wonderful news


Christianity is growing in Africa - so too is the suffering (the failure to use contraceptives alongside the renewal of age old Christian witch hunting).
I assume the papacy has made no objection (albeit they should object).


The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for quite a bit of suffering on their own in Africa - what, with their "natural family planning" and disapproval of contraceptives.

The RCC seems to think that suffering is intrinsically good.



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14 Jun 2010, 8:50 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Flair wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Flair wrote:
This is wonderful news


Christianity is growing in Africa - so too is the suffering (the failure to use contraceptives alongside the renewal of age old Christian witch hunting).
I assume the papacy has made no objection (albeit they should object).


The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for quite a bit of suffering on their own in Africa - what, with their "natural family planning" and disapproval of contraceptives.

The RCC seems to think that suffering is intrinsically good.
I've noticed.



Fuzzy
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15 Jun 2010, 3:12 am

This also means the muslims in those countries will begin to value children more. End effect? Less suicide bombers.


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AngelRho
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15 Jun 2010, 8:18 am

Muslims do something that Christians seem to do less often: They pass on their faith to their children. If you're born to a Muslim family, it's assumed that you are and will always be Muslim.

Most people who claim to be Christian in reality have more ecumenical leanings when it comes to their children.

I say if it's good enough for my grandparents, my parents, my wife and myself, it's good enough for my own children. We don't have to be "militant" about it, but I can say from experience it's much easier to be a follower of Christ if you "opt in" early on and make it a habit, not just something you believe on Sunday morning.

A lot of Christians complain because no matter what they do, they can't seem to "make" their children believe. They don't see the point in working on their kids when they're just going to reject the message anyway, and they even worry that insisting on church attendance will actually push their children away from faith at all. What they fail to see is that the decision to accept Christ is ultimately up to the child. With the child actually having knowledge of Christ and the Bible, the child can make a reasonable informed decision. If a child is NOT exposed to the Bible and Christian teaching, he's not likely to accept it anyway. It's better, I think, as Christian parents we do our best with the influence we have on our children.

Also, it's remarkable how many Christians come to faith in adulthood. There are also large numbers of conversion from other faiths or no faith

Islam, by almost complete contrast, doesn't seem to have quite as many new converts. It seems to me it's something you're more "born into" than anything else. The nature of the religion itself is such that it lacks the Christian "revolving door," i.e. it is less tolerant of those who openly denounce it or convert to other religions.



Fuzzy
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15 Jun 2010, 9:11 am

AngelRho wrote:
Islam, by almost complete contrast, doesn't seem to have quite as many new converts. It seems to me it's something you're more "born into" than anything else. The nature of the religion itself is such that it lacks the Christian "revolving door," i.e. it is less tolerant of those who openly denounce it or convert to other religions.


Its also highly integrated into culture.

Curiosity: At what point would you accept your child wont be a Christian? How do you draw that line?


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pandabear
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15 Jun 2010, 10:01 am

From what I understand, in Northern Ireland, Catholics stay Catholics, and proties stay proties, and never the twain shall meet.

No slipping in and out nor back and forth.



Fuzzy
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15 Jun 2010, 12:16 pm

pandabear wrote:
From what I understand, in Northern Ireland, Catholics stay Catholics, and proties stay proties, and never the twain shall meet.

No slipping in and out nor back and forth.


Of course not! Just think of the children! How confused would they be? Would they self harm?


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Tequila
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15 Jun 2010, 12:24 pm

pandabear wrote:
From what I understand, in Northern Ireland, Catholics stay Catholics, and proties stay proties, and never the twain shall meet.


Yes, the two don't generally intermarry like in Great Britain due to the sectarian issue there. More and more people are beginning to intermarry over there though...