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Capper7
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27 Aug 2010, 9:35 pm

I'd go to the Haven, but this involves religion and politics.

My immediate family is all Catholic; my parents, siblings, & I are all practicing while our closest relatives aren't. However, I'm the only conservative I can identify and definitely the only solidly social conservative. I might have my postitions and do what I can in my free time to advocate for them, but there are times when I'm not in that mode and members of my family will go after me for my beliefs. I never insert the message of my platform into family time. I love my family, but sometimes I'm treated differently and yelled at just because of the viewpoints contained in my heart. Somehow even those going to church with me aren't coming up with the same thing I am.

I've only been allowed at the voting booth since last year, but I've been a Catholic all my life and see this as more important. I won't vote for a politician if our ideologies don't match up. I'm registered as a Republican and both of my parents are Democrats.

Has something like this happened to someone else? If you don't agree with my positions, I'm not here to get into an argument; I'm just looking to find a way to make peace when they go off on me. Maybe if you happen to be liberal, you've had the exact opposite happen to you!



Hanotaux
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27 Aug 2010, 10:20 pm

I would just go around planting little seeds in your relatives' heads.

The best way to convince them of anything is not to get in full-blown arguements and debates with them. Just make little off-handed and haphazard comments here and there anytime you are with them, and whenever you come across anything related to your political differences, like your feelings on immigration and stuff like that. All you have to do is just make little comments and let those statements grow inside the heads of your family.

This is what I do with my parents. I turned them into hardcore Republicans when before they were unconcerned about issues. I used to sit there in the car and make comments about stuff like "paying tax-dollars for minorities to use mass-transit," and stuff like that. Now, they are completely "awake."

I'd never sit there and make a long-ass speech or a full arguement to my parents. I'd just drop hints and statements all over the place and let those political ideas and awarenesses develop in their heads on their own. If you fight with them, they'll just become even more stuck in their liberal convictions and convinced that they are right.

Good luck with your conservative crusade........... don't get bogged down in endless arguements but just stay true to yourself and just chip away at their liberal indoctrination and psychologically undermine them with many small comments.



Orwell
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27 Aug 2010, 10:32 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
Just make little off-handed and haphazard comments here and there anytime you are with them, and whenever you come across anything related to your political differences, like your feelings on immigration and stuff like that. All you have to do is just make little comments and let those statements grow inside the heads of your family.

Most people would just find that more obnoxious than anything else, especially if they already have opposing political views and they recognize an attempt to take a cheap shot at their beliefs. I think this particular approach would, in this situation at least, just lead to more hostility and aggravation. Probably better would be a simple statement that "I have my beliefs, you have yours, we aren't going to change each others' minds so let's not bicker about it."

Quote:
"paying tax-dollars for minorities to use mass-transit,"

What the hell? I use mass transit and I am as white as they come.


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Hanotaux
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27 Aug 2010, 10:44 pm

Quote:
Most people would just find that more obnoxious than anything else


You just have to be surreptitious about it and not let people on to what you are doing. You have to make your moves subliminally and casually enough to where the target has his guard down.

In situations where your relatives are seeking out a debate or wanting to preach, that is the time to just walk away. Its best to wait when they are not in confrontation mode over their beliefs or are outwardly in a moderate-mood for when you begin to go at it.



leejosepho
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28 Aug 2010, 1:07 pm

Capper7 wrote:
I love my family, but sometimes I'm treated differently and yelled at just because of the viewpoints contained in my heart ...
Has something like this happened to someone else? ... I'm just looking to find a way to make peace when they go off on me.

Hanotaux wrote:
In situations where your relatives are seeking out a debate or wanting to preach, that is the time to just walk away.

In my own case, I consider myself fortunate to be able to just stay away. "Making peace" is not a realistic goal here, and it sounds like you have little chance of ever even arriving at some kind of truce. Some people simply cannot be content with letting others just be content.


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DW_a_mom
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28 Aug 2010, 5:20 pm

My Dad was the conservative brand of Catholicism, and my mother, sisters and I are all the liberal brand.

It isn't so much about hearing different things in Church, but emphasizing different concepts, and applying the religious concepts to politics in different manners.

The liberal Catholics are big on the social justice stories from the Bible, and the social justice stances of the church. We've heard the part where the priest condemns capital punishment as not being pro-life, and while we would never have abortions because of our pro-life beliefs, we also have trouble putting politics into play on a personal issue like abortion. Stack up all that in the voting booth, and you become a Democrat.

The conservative Catholics are big on the anti-abortion part of being pro-life, and tend to split the hair on ignoring the anti-capital punishment teaching as "oh well, the guy was guilty." They feel they have a duty to protect unborn life beyond the choices made in their own family or social circle, and feel politics is a viable tool for it. The Church is officially somewhat mum on that part; it teaches the sanctity of life, and that we have a duty to protect it, but doesn't go so far as to say the law must do it; still, many many Catholics and priests take that stance, and place a high priority on it. All the social justice teachings, and the ways the Democratic party fits those better, fall behind the goal of protecting the unborn life.

Until abortion became an issue, most Catholics were Democrats. I saw that turn during my youth.

The Church does not officially support either party, and Catholics exist in both ideologies. A lot of the differences are personal, rather than theological.

You probably believe in taking care of those less fortunate than you, just like the Bible says, but figure that is for you to do, not your government. I figure I can't touch the entire world, and would like the government to help me do it Both are viable theological positions.

We're not that different, really. Different priorities, and different ways of getting to similar goals. My mother's two best friends are women she knows from church, and they have polar opposite politics than she does. It baffles her, and it makes her sad, but they are still her two best friends. What they share outweighs what they disagree on, when it comes right down to it.

But, oh, politics always elicits strong opinions, doesn't it?

If you enjoy the debate, then explain how your A leads to B and leads to C. If you don't, tell your family that you have interpreted the teachings of church, as for how they apply to modern life, a little differently than they have, and ask them to respect that. They shouldn't be going off "at" you, although it is common for people with strong to beliefs to share them at family gatherings. My dad, being the patriarch, was probably in a stronger position for being the lone conservative than you are. He did not get picked on, obviously, lol, but he did feel he was a lonely pillar in the stormy sea of female liberals in the family. It was something he laughed about.

Jesus came and spoke 2,000 years ago. Life was a little different then. There is a lot of room for interpretation when trying to figure out how the Bible applies to modern day life.

Pope John Paul II said a lot of things I don't agree with when it comes to making them happen politically, but I had to concede, when he passed away, that if the world could exist in the way he envisioned it, the full complete vision, I would want to live in it. I would trade away a few personal choices to see the good parts of that world. Surprisingly, must of my conservative friends said they would not, mostly because, "it just can't happen." Well.

Faith doesn't live in a vacuum separate from worldly realities, and the Catholic church today has become a very large umbrella of diverse beliefs.


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DW_a_mom
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28 Aug 2010, 5:37 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
I would just go around planting little seeds in your relatives' heads.

The best way to convince them of anything is not to get in full-blown arguements and debates with them. Just make little off-handed and haphazard comments here and there anytime you are with them, and whenever you come across anything related to your political differences, like your feelings on immigration and stuff like that. All you have to do is just make little comments and let those statements grow inside the heads of your family.



That sort of thing never worked with me. The little remarks tend to sound .. bitter?

If someone wants me to change or modify a belief, they have to show me a reality that I had never considered. This is something that takes time, and a well-honed argument. It has happened.

I grew up conservative because my dad was one (my socialist mom kept her mouth quiet when we were younger) and flipped liberal during college as new information entered my knowledge base. I've moved some things back into the middle because of even more new information. A prime example would be in the area of guns, which I wanted to outright ban (dad had never had a solid position there, so it wasn't a flip, flip over, flip back - first position was the ban). Smart arguments during long talks - not snarky remarks - convinced me that guns do serve a purpose in certain situations

We don't really have debates with our current conservative friends because they are immovable objects. Yeah, they like their snarky remarks. We just roll our eyes and they laugh. Part of each of us accepting who the other is; they aren't going to change us, we aren't going to change them. It has its uses, however, when there is a political position you really really don't get; you've got someone to explain it to you. I still may not buy it, but at least I'll learn to see and respect the logic behind it.


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StefanoB
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28 Aug 2010, 8:11 pm

Hanotaux wrote:
I used to sit there in the car and make comments about stuff like "paying tax-dollars for minorities to use mass-transit," and stuff like that. Now, they are completely "awake."


And to think Republicans/conservatives keep insisting that they're not bigots.