What does Satan represent?
In the whole God/Satan, Fall of Satan paradigm, what does Satan represent to you/your interpretation?
To me, the whole thing seems to be a matter of creation vs power over creation. God creates everything but then grants free will. Satan acts out of jealousy but what the motive seems to be is more a want of the power of free will or the power over others. In the same way, if we look at most evil deeds, they're acts of controlling power over others. Wars are fought for power and control (resources may be a product sought after but control of those resources is the end game which in the aftermath grants power to the winning leadership).
Of course, Satan is classically portrayed as temptation...but isn't even that a matter of Satan trying to act as an influence and controlling power?
I think it comes down to a want of power vs a want of liberty.
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Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
To me, the whole thing seems to be a matter of creation vs power over creation. God creates everything but then grants free will. Satan acts out of jealousy but what the motive seems to be is more a want of the power of free will or the power over others. In the same way, if we look at most evil deeds, they're acts of controlling power over others. Wars are fought for power and control (resources may be a product sought after but control of those resources is the end game which in the aftermath grants power to the winning leadership).
Of course, Satan is classically portrayed as temptation...but isn't even that a matter of Satan trying to act as an influence and controlling power?
I think it comes down to a want of power vs a want of liberty.
Power to do what?
It says in the Bible that the whole world lies under the thrall of the wicked one, and that we're all slaves to the "god of this world" which is satan. So that ties in with your theory. In the Biblical narrative Jesus came to liberate us from our slave master... though like many slaves in the regular world people become so accustomed to servitude that they don't want to leave their chains.
I think your theory is very well expressed. Interesting.
To me, the whole thing seems to be a matter of creation vs power over creation. God creates everything but then grants free will. Satan acts out of jealousy but what the motive seems to be is more a want of the power of free will or the power over others. In the same way, if we look at most evil deeds, they're acts of controlling power over others. Wars are fought for power and control (resources may be a product sought after but control of those resources is the end game which in the aftermath grants power to the winning leadership).
Of course, Satan is classically portrayed as temptation...but isn't even that a matter of Satan trying to act as an influence and controlling power?
I think it comes down to a want of power vs a want of liberty.
Power to do what?
To make you kiss my feet if I so wanted.
/expression of power over others merely for power's sake
//it's what drives more priests and politicians than anyone'd ever be comfortable admitting
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
Celebrity isn't necessarily the same thing as power but the pope certainly wields power.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
leejosepho
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"God" is actually the jealous one ...
Jealous: intolerant of rivalry or unfaithfulness
... and "Satan" is the envious one.
Envy: painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another, joined with a desire to possess the same advantage
So then: "Satan" simply wants to be at least "equal", so s/he/it offers seemingly good things to people in order to steal their favor.
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AngelRho
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skafather pretty much nailed it as far as how I'd have responded.
Apart from that, my opinion is that Satan seeks to be greater than his own creator God. The only logical way to accomplish that goal is to undermine God's work in the world. The stumbling of man in the garden, for instance, represents Satan's success at introducing a flaw into a perfect world. Satan was allowed no power to act directly, but he DID influence man to freely commit sin.
The truth as I see it is, in regards to power, that God already granted man (Adam) His most significant and most important powers: Powers of creation being the most important, along with the power of will and power of discernment. The folly of man is that of mistakenly believing that he can attain higher or greater power than he has, thus elevating him to an equal status or higher status than God. God already made us equal with Him, therefore any improvement is a willful display of arrogance. I've come to the conclusion that Adam already knew good from evil because God TOLD him that the tree of discernment (knowing good from evil) leads to physical death. I think that Satan had already attempted something like this following the same paradigm, the difference being that Satan already had an eternal knowledge and relationship with God prior to creation. If you KNOW God in His glory in the kingdom of heaven, and if you are given the choice, and if you choose rebellion, you can have no part in salvation. Human beings HAVE a choice to know God or not, and simple blasphemy against God without experiencing works of the Holy Spirit can be forgiven humans born with a sinful nature; angels, experiencing the Divine from creation, ought to know better and cannot be excused.
Having and desiring power and authority over others in and of itself is not a bad thing. What MAKES it bad is the corrupt nature of the human mind and heart. I personally don't have a beef with the Catholic Church, though I'm not Catholic, but they DO have an unfortunate history of attaining power and authority and allowing themselves to become corrupt. Though they have made amazing strides since the days of the Inquisitors, there continue to be attacks on the Church because of some abusive acts on the part of the clergy. Accumulating power has the advantage of increasing personal/institutional freedom (which is always a good thing). But it is harmful when it is allowed to push personal agendas and even false doctrine. I think Satan has always been adept at attaining power and convincing certain influential humans to feed their own addictions to power and authority, the net result of which is not really empowering humans, but rather expanding the reach and scope of Adversary. These sentiments are further realized when global wars break out.
I think one of the greatest victories that Satan has won, ESPECIALLY in our own time, is how well he's succeeded in convincing more people throughout the world that they are good people. I highly doubt that Stalin ever entertained the thought that MAYBE his actions were corrupt and evil. He was doing nothing more than protecting himself from those who wished him harm, and his desire was genuinely for the benefit of all Russian people by advancing the principles of communism. But then we look to the needless killings and purges and find that his hideous actions are at the detriment of his own people, benefiting none other than himself and solidifying his hold on power. For what aim? Gaining more power?
The fact is, from Adam's fall to Satan in the garden, not a single person has the right to think that he or she is a "good person." Such a person does not exist save in the person of God Himself. We are misled by Satan to believe our self-serving and self-seeking motives are to the greater good and benefit of all, or at the very least our self-centered actions are private affairs and hurt no one else. That alone makes us a good person because we wish no harm on other people. I think that line of thinking is the greatest deception engineered by Satan. Anyone who claims to be good, right, just, perfect, and so on is suspect, as far as I'm concerned. Someone who is wholeheartedly committed to God and His service is fully aware of his own worthlessness and will admit to it, even to those he leads. The ONLY means a person has of overcoming the power of Satan is full submission to God.
I don't believe in any of it, myself, but I do have an interpretation of the myth that I personally find narratively interesting.
God creates humans without the ability to tell right from wrong. He then tells them not to do the thing that would make them able to tell right from wrong. The humans, lacking the ability to think with any complexity, can't possibly be expected to follow this command. Then Satan shows up and basically tells them the truth. Tells them they can gain knowledge, and how to do so. So the humans follow Satan's advice and take the leap into sapience. God gets angry at the humans for behaving exactly as their programming (which He created) would inevitably lead them to behave, and he gets angry at Satan for being honest and standing up against idiocy.
Satan represents free thought and standing up for what one knows is the right thing to do, regardless of what the boss man says. God represents the irrational tyrant who demands things he shouldn't expect.
It's a story about rebelling against an unjust government.
To me, the whole thing seems to be a matter of creation vs power over creation. God creates everything but then grants free will. Satan acts out of jealousy but what the motive seems to be is more a want of the power of free will or the power over others. In the same way, if we look at most evil deeds, they're acts of controlling power over others. Wars are fought for power and control (resources may be a product sought after but control of those resources is the end game which in the aftermath grants power to the winning leadership).
Of course, Satan is classically portrayed as temptation...but isn't even that a matter of Satan trying to act as an influence and controlling power?
I think it comes down to a want of power vs a want of liberty.
Power to do what?
To make you kiss my feet if I so wanted.
/expression of power over others merely for power's sake
//it's what drives more priests and politicians than anyone'd ever be comfortable admitting
S Satan is the same kind of imbecile as God who dreams only of people kissing feet? I can't imagine any sane intellect needing to have feet kissed. What a dopey concept.
leejosepho
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God creates humans without the ability to tell right from wrong.
I think that is inaccurate. We simply began without the knowledge of consequences for actions either good or evil.
No, He then tells them not to do the thing that would bring painful consequence ... much like our parents told us to never put our fingers in the fire.
That was definitely *not* the case!
Nope. He spoke his own envy to them as a lie that they could then be like "God" ... which, now that I think about it, actually is true at least in the sense of now knowing the consequences for actions.
Not even close.
Nope. It is a story about learning the truth (gaining the knowledge) of the matter.
_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================
To me, the whole thing seems to be a matter of creation vs power over creation. God creates everything but then grants free will. Satan acts out of jealousy but what the motive seems to be is more a want of the power of free will or the power over others. In the same way, if we look at most evil deeds, they're acts of controlling power over others. Wars are fought for power and control (resources may be a product sought after but control of those resources is the end game which in the aftermath grants power to the winning leadership).
Of course, Satan is classically portrayed as temptation...but isn't even that a matter of Satan trying to act as an influence and controlling power?
I think it comes down to a want of power vs a want of liberty.
Power to do what?
To make you kiss my feet if I so wanted.
/expression of power over others merely for power's sake
//it's what drives more priests and politicians than anyone'd ever be comfortable admitting
S Satan is the same kind of imbecile as God who dreams only of people kissing feet? I can't imagine any sane intellect needing to have feet kissed. What a dopey concept.
You miss the point but I don't really care. This kind of exercise doesn't really seem to be your forte. Abstract concepts and philosophical interpretations. You seem more a person for the concrete and probably consider the abstract a waste of time.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
Abu_Zarqawi
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Satan is the material world, containing all the petty affairs and emotions of men. As such, we were fused with him at the moment of conception, when the physical being emerged, and are in his midst until the day we cease to be. There is no hell awaiting us after we die. Hell is awaiting us when we are born.
God is the way by which we can escape hell. However, where it is we escape to or exactly how it is done I believe is beyond explanation. In all monotheistic faiths the fundamental mystery of God, being unfathomable and unknowable to the human mind, is present. While it often has been downplayed in favour of a more personal, relateable God, it's probably closer to the truth than the idea of a friendly uncle sitting in the sky granting you wishes.
"And do not call anyone on earth father, for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." - Matthew 23:1
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"Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." - John 8: 47
ruveybn
Because the actions and motives they represent do exist and the understanding of them and the better defining of such avatars helps us.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
Satan is from what I've heard based off of sumerian gods. Sumerian gods had horns and seeing as other religions are the enemy of God/Yahweh's religions it was easier to pervert the old gods than to create new evil ones.
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"Some ideals are worth dying for"
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