The latest Wikileaks drop

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28 Nov 2010, 10:51 pm

It seems like a combination of a confirmation of the empire actions that most of us here assume the country does and schoolyard gossip.

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28 Nov 2010, 11:12 pm

skafather84 wrote:

It seems like a combination of a confirmation of the empire actions that most of us here assume the country does and schoolyard gossip.

I could not have said it better. Fascinating and pathetic at the same time.

Still reading them, wondering what the consequences will be...

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28 Nov 2010, 11:20 pm

DL'd the casualty reports they had. Damn that was a massive waste of human life. Lesson (apparently not) learned: check your freaking intelligence reports before launching an invasion.

EDIT: I would like to register my disgust with and contempt for the current administration in their desire to cover up the crimes of the previous administration (and continuing under the current one). I am not impressed by their ludicrous claims that releasing documents from a war that IS ALREADY OVER somehow compromises national security. They just don't want to be held accountable to the people.

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28 Nov 2010, 11:24 pm

Well seems like war with Iran is inevitable. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and other neighboring countries are demanding it and I can't see the US not being involved.

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28 Nov 2010, 11:28 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Well seems like war with Iran is inevitable. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and other neighboring countries are demanding it and I can't see the US not being involved.

I doubt it. We've known for a long time that Israel would like us to annihilate Iran; that's nothing new. But there is no convenient pretext for a war against them. War with North Korea is possible, if there is another skirmish and the South decides it's had enough. But Iran? If we take any action there it's more likely to be more-or-less covert operations to undermine Ahmadinejad (never mind that his replacement would probably be a crazy far-right Islamic theocrat; we don't think that far ahead when we attempt regime change).

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28 Nov 2010, 11:43 pm

Orwell wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Well seems like war with Iran is inevitable. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and other neighboring countries are demanding it and I can't see the US not being involved.

Too much heed is given to Ahmadinejad.The Ayatollah has always been the one in charge. Undermining Ahmadinejad would be a pointless effort.

The thing I took away from these leaks is how much of a threat Saudi Arabia and the other Arab states find Iran. If we don't, they will and force our hand.

While tensions with North Korea are high, I think it's likely that China would sell them out if push came to shove. Their government wouldn't last a month if China cut them off.

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28 Nov 2010, 11:48 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Well seems like war with Iran is inevitable. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and other neighboring countries are demanding it and I can't see the US not being involved.

Wonder if they'll work Pakistan into the deal as well since they're getting all crazy-go-nuts and already have nukes. Geographically, it's fairly convenient.

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28 Nov 2010, 11:54 pm

I just hope that the people behind wikileaks gets on the bad side of the CIA or the Mossad sometime soon. :twisted:

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28 Nov 2010, 11:57 pm

John_Browning wrote:

I just hope that the people behind wikileaks gets on the bad side of the CIA or the Mossad sometime soon. :twisted:

f**k that, I like knowing what's actually going on with my government rather than the lying and the bullshitting. I know they're bullshitting me and it's f*****g insulting and it destroys the ability to democratically decide given that there's enough morons who believe the propaganda without realizing it's all lies.

I want an actual god damned mother f*****g democracy. Not some dog and pony show BS.

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29 Nov 2010, 12:05 am

John_Browning wrote:

I just hope that the people behind wikileaks gets on the bad side of the CIA or the Mossad sometime soon. :twisted:

lets hope that insurance file is legit in that case

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29 Nov 2010, 12:14 am

skafather84 wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

I just hope that the people behind wikileaks gets on the bad side of the CIA or the Mossad sometime soon. :twisted:

f**k that, I like knowing what's actually going on with my government rather than the lying and the bullshitting. I know they're bullshitting me and it's f***ing insulting and it destroys the ability to democratically decide given that there's enough morons who believe the propaganda without realizing it's all lies.

I want an actual god damned mother f***ing democracy. Not some dog and pony show BS.

I'm with Ska here. Transparency and accountability are tremendously important in having a proper, functioning government. And you can't even pretend that you have anything like a "democracy" while upholding the right of the government to lie to you and keep you in the dark.

I differ from Ska in not being all that enamored with democracy, mother f*****g or otherwise. But I still think any government has to be open and accountable.

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29 Nov 2010, 12:20 am

Orwell wrote:

But I still think any government has to be open and accountable.

These latest "revelations" will force the crooks to be closer and the humble to be honorable.

skafather84
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29 Nov 2010, 12:21 am

Orwell wrote:

I differ from Ska in not being all that enamored with democracy, mother f***ing or otherwise. But I still think any government has to be open and accountable.

Meh...republic or democratic. I'd prefer something a little more directly representative to match the transparency but a republic does help with some of the flaws.

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29 Nov 2010, 12:27 am

skafather84 wrote:

Orwell wrote:

I differ from Ska in not being all that enamored with democracy, mother f***ing or otherwise. But I still think any government has to be open and accountable.

Meh...republic or democratic. I'd prefer something a little more directly representative to match the transparency but a republic does help with some of the flaws.

Oh no, you have me all wrong. I'm not one of those silly right-wingers saying "We're a REPUBLIC, not a Democracy" (as if any of them understand what the functional difference would be, or that those two terms are not mutually exclusive). I'd much prefer enlightened despotism. Bring on the benevolent dictators, and LONG LIVE THE KING!

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29 Nov 2010, 12:33 am

Orwell wrote:

And what happens when a given despot turns out to be not so enlightened after all?

I personally prefer a farily democratic government nevertheless with a somewhat politically independent and technocratic civil service and broad application of industrial democracy (extensive use of workers cooperatives, Saxon Model industrial relations, etc). I recognize that a "pure democracy" (as with most "pure" things) is impossible.

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29 Nov 2010, 12:38 am

Orwell wrote:

Bring on the benevolent dictators, and LONG LIVE THE KING!

But there are 10's of thousands of people game-fully employed and have children,
that make certain the idea of a flat_tax cannot be thought of without death warrants issued.
For the good of the country - it's all about good principles...and if that don't work, use the children.

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