The right and left should cooperate to resist islam

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I am ashamed of other liberals who shoot the messenger every time someone is not PC about this religion of death. Since the onset of terrorism, there has been too much finger pointing. It is easier to destroy nations that are divided. What Western governments should do is only let in muslim immigrants if they are refugees.

The reason for this post is that the West has everything to lose, while the muslims have almost nothing, which is why they resort to jihad.

Instead of showing that we are capable of resisting jihad's world domination fascism, my agemates squander their time watching neurotoxic trash. The West, with its media, tacitly tells the muslims that it is an easy target because whenever someone from a remote area of the world switches on the t.v., all they see of it are braindead citcoms, instead of the acheivements of America and Europe.

Last edited by petitesouris on 11 Dec 2010, 1:41 am, edited 4 times in total.

"In 100 years, Europe might be an islamic republic"

Ill-informed bollocks. Theres more chance of Mike Huckabee becoming american president and prmoting widespread creationism in US schools than europe ever becoming an islamic republic. The uk's population is about 2% muslim and secularism and atheisim are far far more advanced in western europe than they are in the states. The threat to western states from islam is next to negligible.

what are you suggesting we do

I think you should resist offensively violent interpretations of any religion or ideology. There's moderate muslims, and there's immoderate Muslims, just as there's violent and non-violent factions with about anything else. Not all Muslims agree with mixing politics and religion, and there's a lot of different interpretations. Like, Suffi muslims, for example, are about as non-violent a religious sect as one could be apart of. I really doubt that Europe will be an Islamic Republic. That just sounds like right wing, reactionary rhetoric. For Islam to become the law of the land, it has to be popular. Minority positions typically don't become the law of the land. The only reason Iran is an Islamic Republic is it had a very large Muslim population to begin with.

I think that what makes Muslim culture more violent than Christian culture at the moment is that:

1. Christianity went through an Enlightenment period that Islam never had.
2. Countries with large Christian populations keep religion and government separate (for the most part)
3. Christians tend to ignore the nastier parts of the Bible wheras Muslims probably embrace everything in the Quran
4. From what I've heard, the Quran calls for more violence than the Bible does. Not that I've read the Quran.

It isnt more violent. Just look at the death tolls of civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Yemen and Pakistan. All caused by the invading mongol hordes of the west and then compare that to the western bodycount caused by muslims. It pales in comparison.

*sigh*

Islam is more of a threat to itself than a threat to the West. Muslims are the number one victim of Islam.

I really don't get what this Poster wants "liberals" to do in "resisting" Islam. If you mean openly criticize the Qu'ran as a depraved document, then yes, I'd support that. If you mean criticizing thugish attempts to threaten cartoonists, yes - I support that. If you mean opposing attempts to censor criticism of Islam through hate speech laws, then yes I support you. If you mean limiting immigration from Muslim countries, waging liberally imperialist wars against Muslim countries, nuking Muslim countries (ruveyn's favoured response), supporting Israel's apartheid regime, or treating home-born or naturalized Muslim citizens as second-class citizens worthy of police harrassment, then NO, I OPPOSE YOU.

The Islamification of Europe dogma is bloody well absurd - even if Muslim immigrants become increasingly integrated into European society at higher levels, they'll experience the effects of relative secularization. What we need is the integration of Muslims into secular, multicultural, and realtively equalitarian societies.

Bit busy resisting our own governments at the moment old chap. Wouldn't surprise me if some westerners started copying Jihadi practise though. Seems to work very well for our Persian friends. Government is terrified of upsetting them. Not so worried about upsetting its own citizens though.

arabs cook nice kebabs.

yummm
apart from that i do not really have an opinion.

Differential birth rates will change that in under three generations. Non Muslim Europeans (mostly white) are reproducing at less than the replacement rate. Muslims are reproducing three times the rate of white Europeans. Just wait and see what will happen.

For the same reason, the Israeli Jews are doomed. They are currently reproducing at a much lower rate than the Arab speaking Palestinians. Time and biology will take its course unless a war with lots of death and destruction intervenes.

ruveyn

I'd imagine their rates will slow down, just as it has among white Europeans and Israeli Jews. Once cultures realize that we have modernized medicine, longer lifespans, the idea that it costs tons to raise children, and infant mortality has significantly dropped - people will realize you don't need to have tons of kids anymore.

I would also say many from the Islamic world does embrace many western ideals, once they learn about them and live in them for a while. A few don't, but many become more moderated as a result of it. This was even backed by one of the Wikileaks revelations recently.

It is not Islam that must be resisted, but extremism and resort to the use of violence.

You might argue that Islam demonstrate greater levels of extremism than other religions, but I am sure that there are folk in Ireland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Rwanda and Sri Lanka that would disagree with you. Islam does not hold the intellectual property rights to extremism and violence.

As for particular comments on here, some display an ignorance of history and fact that is appalling.

Europe is no "pristine utopia." Europeans have attempted wars of violence on each other, continuing right into the current decade. Within the lifetimes of almost all members of this board Christian Europeans have actively perpetrated a policy of genocide, while some other Christian Europeans were complicit or wilfully blind to it. (And I am not speaking of WWII).



1. To suggest that Christianity went through an Enlightenment that Islam never had is to betray an ignorance both of the Enlightenment, and the history of Islamic philosophy. Christianity didn't go through the Enlightenment, Europe did. Christianity has been much slower to embrace the philosophy of the Enlightenment. Meanwhile, Islamic philosophers explorations of many enlightenment topics predate Europeans' forays into these subjects by centuries.

2. Well, France most certainly has done, much to her credit. But I wonder how much you are equating "Countries with large Christian populations," with, "Western countries." The political and legal history of some western European nations and of North American, Australia and New Zealand certainly supports you. But can the same be said for Christian populations in South America, Asia (i.e. the Philippines) and Africa? How does this contrast with relatively free societies that have majority non-Christian populations, such as India, Israel or Japan?

3. Well that's just silly. There are plenty of Christian fundamentalists throwing Leviticus around in the political sphere in the United States. And meanwhile, you don't have much of an evidence based argument to suggest what Muslims embrace.

4. Really? Have you read the Bible? Stoning as a punishment for adultery is not a Muslim invention. Now, that is not to say that Christianity and Judaism have not--at least in large part--abondoned their bloodier history. But as they have done, so too have many muslims.

The majority of muslims in the world live in just six countries: Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Egypt and Nigeria. While there are links to islamic terrorism the world over (including North America and Western Europe), only Pakistan among these six is a state of significant concern. I am not trying to suggest that Islamic terrorism is not a subject of concern, but rather that we have allowed a very large population to be tarred with the same brush.

Focus your resistance on what matters, not on coincidental characteristics.

Are you seriously pointing out a whole religion as evil because of a little group of fundamentalist nuts, who are by the way a minority? That's like saying that all christians are like David Koresh and are ready to burn children to death. If muslims were all so dangerous and hated America so much then you guys would have been toasted a long time ago, there is a billion muslims in the world and only something like what, 300 millions americans?

that stuff.