anarchism, individualism, peaceful coexistance

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In the real world, you get Somalia.

ruveyn

I concur. That's why i respect the sincerely held beliefs of someone like Ron Paul but would never ever vote for them. Their economic policies have already been tried under Pinochet in Chile. The fact that you need a Fascist dictator installed to get away with something like said says alot to me. They're two sides of the same coin.

Of course anarchy in the current state of society would be catastrophic. The question that raises is: what mechanisms would turn it into a catastrophe?

Not so long ago, most of humanity did not questioned the role of the king and his fundamental role to keep society functioning. I see a light on the tunnel (but far far away)

Somalia used to be a beautiful culture. Let's not forget that.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Somalia

Historically, you pay protection to YOUR gangsters.

great quote -

“anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others.” -edward abbey

That is a great quote. Can you expand on some of the political problems you have with social anarchism for me please?

It works the same today but on a much grander scale. The corps bribe the two american parties with campaign money and then these establish new markets for business via the use of force in other states.

Who keeps them from doing so right now? The police are afraid of gangsters where I live. The cops basically do nothing but harrassing people who smoke hash.

Violence doesn't emerge because a lack of discipline. As far as I know, the places with the most severe punishments aren't exactly the most peaceful.

If those people who are violent are intrinsically bad and nothing can change that, how do you explain the statistics showing the large percentage of men who admitted rape in South Africa? Are there more intrinsically bad people there, or is there also a large percentage of men in other place who would really like to be rapists, but aren't because of the law? Many things contribute to violence and egoism, I highly doubt that lack of authority is one of them.

Besides, I don't want a society where parents don't rape their kids because otherwise they would go to jail. The problem is not the act itself, the problem when a father rapes his daughter is that he wants to do so in the first place. If he avoids this simply because of the law, then he is still an awful father. And bullies are bullies even when they are "disciplined". Their attitude remains the same, if they aren't "rehabilitated" in some way. Just like Anarchists stay peaceful even in an Anarchy... It's not about laws.

Somalia is way better off now with essentially no central government than when they had a communist dictatorship.

i'll do my best. more than this thread is about politics for me, it's about peace; and anarchism best reflects that in my mind. it's not that i don't have a car of my own, a place to live, or $. i think we should treat our fellow man the way we wish to be treated - human time is running out. obviously, there are those who disagree and wish to take it all; if anarchism replaced capitalism overnight, the problems in such a created system would include verbal violence, stupidity, thievery, violence, murder, rape, burglary, etc. but if people would, somehow or another, and not by means of outer force, stop treating one another like s*** and really get a grip - i believe quality of life would improve greatly (and the need for laws and restrictions would decrease).

Are you arguing in favour of anarchism though? Or humanitarianism?

Personally, I would prefer a Theocracy, but if that's not possible (not everyone is consenting), I think the next best thing is to have a democracy (in which there still is a lot of force of making you do things - sacrificing freedom). In a way I agree with the anarchism statements about governing self. I think that's part of Freedom, to be allowed to make choices of your own. I think it's not right to seek power for the intent of tyranny. But I also think it's important to uphold good leaders. Even an Anarchist society will have leaders, it's a natural thing. Christ taught it this way:

Matt 20:25-28
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

That's the key, to let them. Let them be your minister or let them be your servant. Let people serve each other in ways they see fit. If it takes an election to secure that, so be it.

When Joseph Smith was asked how he was able to govern the people of the church, he had this to say:
"I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves." -Joseph Smith

But I say, whatever is the most peaceful is the most correct form of government.

In principle, there are people who understand a lot better than myself (i.e. teachers analogy) how society should be organized for both individual liberty and society in general. And when I say individual liberty, it means providing as much liberty as possible to the most number of people. In a dictatorship/statist (vanguard party) system, the ruler/party member has a lot of individual liberty but the rest of society is screwed. In a capitalist system, if you are rich you have a lot of individual liberty; if not, you're screwed. It's not possible for everybody to be rich. For someone to be rich, somebody has to be poor, I think?.

I agree about the teacher analogy but the problem is you have a lot of teachers that end up preaching/teaching too much and not listening enough. A teacher-student relationship should be a two-way street because eventually a student may come to know more than the teacher. Moreover, society is way too complex (with many individual differences) to be run fully by a teachers/leaders. Leaders should function only as kinda of mediators/advocates of overall public views, I think? Unfortunately, most leaders only represent the wishes of those who control the wealth.

How many thousands of years ago?

Somalia has been a hell hole for the last part of the 20 th century and the first ten years of this one.

ruveyn