Any Christian Aspies here?

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Hey all. I'm finding myself in what appears to be a fairly unique situation, and by even bringing this topic up here, I feel like I may be poking a hornet's nest.

So no flames please - if you disagree, just move along; I'm not gunning for you, so relax. This will be uncomfortable for many - if that's you just move on.

Like most of you I have AS. I'm wanting to talk to some other Aspies who claim Jesus Christ as Lord, if there are any here. Again, no flames please, I'm not here to debate theology. I could, and I hold my ground well, but I'm not interested in that at this moment. Its not the purpose of this post. Mostly I'm looking to talk to other Aspies who are Christians because of the particular difficulties I'm having reconciling the two, and also because I'm having trouble discussing AS with my counselor who seems to think its behavior traits that can be trained out of a person, and is bothered by statements such as "I can't... intuitively understand other people's nonverbal communication like you do".

My take on the whole "AS is not bad in any way" line of thinking (which is extremely prevalent here) is that although having aspergers in itself does not cause sin, many who have AS do indeed abuse it by hiding behind the label and using it to justify misbehaving. Look at how difficult AS makes marriage for our spouses! You can't tell me AS is all good stuff when so many relationships are destroyed or quite nearly destroyed because of it. The Bible calls people to a standard of behavior, and does not make exceptions just because you are "different". It says to not sin. It also says that nobody is forced to sin, so we all do it by choice. Therefore, I must conclude that TRUE aspergers traits (where you have no choice, its how you are wired) are not sinful. This is difficult to discern in practice because AS people tend to appear selfish, and yet we are called to put others first. As a person with AS I find this difficult mostly because I do not understand other people's emotional needs intuitively.

I do not believe Aspies are inherently "selfish" like much of the world seems to think. I think that a truly selfish person (sin) who happens to have AS is made worse by the fact that they have AS (and also give other Aspies a bad reputation). A lot of aspies tend to wallow in their condition, not even attempting to fit in socially. We're not supposed to act like that, but it doesn't invalidate the fact that we struggle with it. I also don't believe we are malicious, like NPD people. In fact, I would go as far as saying NPD is a spiritual condition rather than a psychological one, but AS is definitely neurological. I'd also like to chat about the role the Holy Spirit has on helping an Aspie fit in socially.

Anyways, these are the topics I'd like to discuss with a few Christian aspies in private - again because I'm not interested in the flames the discussions will attract from those of you who do not share the same spiritual beliefs.

So - any believers in Jesus Christ who are also Aspies here? I mean real followers of Jesus, not just church-goers or tradition-keepers. Real "The-Bible-Is-The-Literal-Word-Of-God" Christians. I don't follow any "religion" which are all just traditions of men. I don't "go to church" I just follow Christ. And as a member of that particular group of people, we're already quite used to being outcast by society at large. Couple that with Aspies who also feel outcast from society, and I'm betting that's a rare individual.

Please PM me if this is you. I really need to chat with you.

Thanks

Ive grappled with the same thoughts, worstened by the self-righteous teachings of various religions, none of which competely follow the word of God.

So, by reading the Bible for myself, and literally, Ive come to this conclsion, tell me if you think Iam right or am deluding myself, (a constant worry as most seem too).

The fact we sin is a proof that God was right and the Devil was wrong when he said "we could be like God knowing good and bad".
If we never sinned despite having eaten from the tree of knowlegde, wouldnt that prove the Devil correct when he aid we could be like God?, ie, God knows bad but hes able to resist it, unlike us.

The differance between Christians and non Christians, is that we both sin, but Christians try not too, though unsuccessfully, but we hate ourselves for doing so and wish we could be like Adam before he sinned, that is, not knowing how to sin in the first place, hense we become repentant and like the sinner who tore his garment and said, "be gracious to me an unworthy sinner" and to whom Jesus said of, "this man is more righteous than" those pharisees he thanked God they where so righteous.

Also remember how Jesus hugged the lepper?

One of Jesus parables was of two men that owed money they couldnt pay off, one a lot of ,money, the othert just a little, Jesus said that the one that was let off a lot, would love the man for letting them off more.
This parable means that Jesus knows that the worst you are at being a sinner that cannot help yourself, maybe because of your aspie traits, the more you are going to Love Jesus and God when with great suprise, knowing how unworthy you are, you find yourself forgiven and living in Paradise drinking the from the river of water of life.

Summing up, its not your good behaviour that saves you, its the acknowledgement of how much we need Jesus ransom sacrifice to pay for the sins we have done, and the appretiation and LOve we feel in return.

When Jesus runs the world, then he will cure all of us sinners who want him to.

Dont forget Jesus said a well person has no need of a doctor, he is that physician who has come to save us that our sick, not the self-righteous who feel they dont need curing, (but really they do).

I have been a Lutheran for almost 9 years.

Somewhat surprisingly given the atmosphere, yes, we are still here in the catacombs.

To get succinct:

My understanding is that our mental structure, like our handedness, skin color, trick knees and aversion to certain foods is a gift from God, is by definition GOOD if received with thanks and rightly used, is one of the "talents" entrusted to us.

That like any of the other talents, we can [free will, after all] bury it, spend it on booze, give it to a needy neighbour, invest it so as to return it with interest.

Aspie traits then are not sin, nor punishment for sin, any more than appetite for sex. Sin is in what we do with what we have. Matthew 15:11.

Me.

Me = Catholic

I'm also Catholic.

I'm Christian.

I don't think aspies are really selfish, at least not more or less than NTs. I think we are more likely to be introverted and preoccupied in ways that other people find difficult to understand, and we have a difficult time understanding what it is someone means as well as a difficult time making ourselves understood by others.

My wife has learned exactly how to deal with me when I "don't get it," so she doesn't bother dropping hints. If you want me to do something, "tell" and don't "ask." I'm the kind of person that immediately looks for possibilities or alternatives, so I have a hard time just listening to her tell me about how her day went; I've made a lot of progress learning how to just nod my head and say, "Oh, I see," and that's a big step for me! I've also learned how to ask for help when something overwhelms me, and she knows immediately what I mean when I ask her if I can use her (NT) brain for a minute! She's also good at prompting me in social situations and covers me well enough that I don't come off looking like a complete idiot.

That's just a little bit of my experience. And as for what I believe, I am a Bible literalist. However, I also recognize that parts of the Bible are purposefully symbolic, such as apocalyptic literature, poetry/songs, and prophecy, and it's plain that the Bible interprets itself when it comes to some of these "difficulties." Proverbs is a great example of what about the Bible can't be taken TOO literally--I try to live out Biblical wisdom in my life and have experienced difficulties such as losing good-paying jobs and my family suffering abuse at the hands of "good" church members. Wisdom writings are only true if they are understood as general, broad statements or guidelines for living rather than proven formulas for prosperity. And I wholeheartedly believe that Jesus was who the gospel writers said He was.

I'll be glad to correspond privately and help any way I can.

I am mormon.
I believe in christ.
Therefore I am christian. (though others may claim that we are not, we are).
I try to live the gospel, but like everyone else in this world, I fall short.
That is why I LOVE the atonement.
I agree with you that some people hide behind their diagnoses(I have done that before).
Others try to fix it and pretend it doesn't not exist (been guilty of that before).
Yes, I have been called selfish, and in some cases, I am, and in some cases I am not.
That is why I try and read up about everything that I can, fix anything I can, and explain everything else.
In the end, how hard we tried, and our hearts is what will matter.

not a Christian (I would be if the various sects wern't...well insane, that and I don't like being told I am merely a slave and useless unless I submit to an unseen master-though that might just be religion NOT spirituality talking, my dad is spiritual, and sees it more, well nicer) though the bible does have some pretty bad ass stuff in there
I will freely admit that

Yeah, I'm a Christian. Been walking the walk for 30 years. Found I was an aspie 4 years ago. I've been away from Wrongplanet for two years. Made business cards with DSM on Aspergers three years ago.

I run across a lot of Aspergers in the churches who don't know they are or why they are having such a tough time. They are looking for structure with social rules they can learn and get by with. Unfortunately they are still trying to be Normals -- an impossible task. If I bring up Aspergers they think I'm putting them down and insulting them. It takes them time to realize that I really am as "strange" as themselves and I accept them.

I have made myself indispensable in the church, having the gift of healing cancer, the gift of healing arthritis, some prophecy, a lot of Word of Knowledge, inner healing and, lastly, exorcism. I've saved a lot of lives, literally. I am effective at one-on-one discipleship. In a pinch, I can lead groups but it takes a lot of emotional energy to do so. But I'm still not socially "Normal."

Rev. John Wesley, the Anglican priest who founded the Methodist denomination, shows all the signs of being Aspergers. He turned the English-speaking Christianity around, but he was almost jailed in Georgia for a social faux pas. His biography is comforting.

...you healed cancer...

Hmm, yeah I'm gonna have to refine my parameters some. Here goes:

chrissyrun: I appreciate your thoughts and comments, but I'm well acquainted with the Mormons and have been educated on their doctrine for about ten years. Nothing against you personally, and in fact I've had some good friends who are Mormons, but I disagree with any statement that we believe in the same being we each call Christ. I actually had a Mormon missionary come to my door about a year ago. We had a lengthy debate in my doorway and I finally got him to admit that his god was not the same as my God. The thing to note is the terminology is quite similar between the two, but what a term means to a Christian has an entirely different meaning to a Mormon. There are some very striking differences though, once you start digging deeper. Like, we do not recognize Joseph Smith as a prophet. Jesus Christ is eternal, both past and future - not created, but who actually created time itself with a specific starting and ending point, and who actually transcends that time-line. This would not describe the Mormon god. God did not come from a distant planet called Kolob. Human beings do not have the opportunity to become gods of their own planets. Etc. Its not the same. You can have your beliefs and call yourselves Mormons I'm fine with that, but please do not call yourselves Christians, it only confuses people. You should really dive into the Journal of Discourses (Mormon writings) sometime. The stuff in there will shock the pants off you!

Also, for any Catholics out there: I'm sure you're nice people but... thanks, but no thanks. I worship God alone, not his earthly mother, nor idols, nor tradition, nor other dead Christians, nor a man in the Vatican who likes to dress silly and make himself look like he's better than everybody else. I do not believe in human authority over other human beings; only God is my authority, I recognize no other. I believe salvation is a free gift of God by grace through faith and not by works, lest anyone should boast - its right there in the book check it out. Also there is no mediator between God and man, but Jesus Christ - that's in the book too, so no, priests have no authority to forgive anything. Might want to consider that at the confession booth... On the plus side, God does not demand a percentage of your money to go to some institution. You don't owe the "church" anything. All God wants is your voluntary love, and to accept his in return. That's it. Consider the fact that its the one and only thing God does not already possess. He already owns the world and everything in it. But your voluntary love is the one thing he does not possess until you give it to him.

Kilroy: I'm very curious. Why do you base your own belief system on the fact that others are "insane"? Many many many out there are insane but my acceptance of the Lord's payment for my sins (which is what its really all about) has nothing to do with their insanity. Why would I refuse a gift from my creator just because other human beings are being stupid? That's kinda silly.

Oh dear, I don't mean to debate, really.. I'm just hoping to maintain the parameters of the kind of people I'm looking to meet - Believers in Jesus Christ, the one true God of the entire universe, who made everything ex-nihilo (out of nothing), and outside of which exists nothing. My intent is to identify those who also follow this God, not to tell people they are wrong, although that tends to happen.

Brother mine:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell. /the squeamish can opt for Hades/
The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic /those bothered can say universal/ church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.

I can go to the Nicene with no problems. By me anyone else who is up to Apostles' or Nicene is brother or sister enough.

It appears you have a very strange idea of what Catholocism entails. Catholics only worship God, the trinity. We don't worship Mary or the saints or the Pope. We honor Mary because in the Bible, Jesus made her our spiritual mother. Jesus also honored Mary and we are to imitate Jesus. The Apostles honored Mary, the early christians honored Mary and since Catholocism is the original Christiantiy, we do the same.

Salvation is a free gift from God. But it can be lost. Even St. Paul, in Bible wrote that you have to perserver to the end. Such an individual was Paul, writing at the end of his life, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day" (2 Tim. 4:7-8). But earlier in life, even Paul did not claim an infallible assurance, either of his present justification or of his remaining in grace in the future. Concerning his present state, he wrote, "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4). Concerning his remaining life, Paul was frank in admitting that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). Of course, for a spiritual giant such as Paul, it would be quite unexpected and out of character for him to fall from God’s grace. Nevertheless, he points out that, however much confidence in his own salvation he may be warranted in feeling, even he cannot be infallibly sure either of his own present state or of his future course.

The same is true of us. We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestants will admit. There is the possibility of self-deception (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9). There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13). It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not.

For example, Philippians 2:12 says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.

Confession is 100% biblical as it was Jesus who instituted it. Are all of our sins, past, present, and future forgiven once and for all when we become Christians? Not according to the Bible or the early Church Fathers. Scripture nowhere states that our future sins are forgiven; instead, it teaches us to pray, "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors" (Matt. 6:12).

The means by which God forgives sins after baptism is confession: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Minor or venial sins can be confessed directly to God, but for grave or mortal sins, which crush the spiritual life out of the soul, God has instituted a different means for obtaining forgiveness the sacrament known popularly as confession, penance, or reconciliation.

This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men"). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23).

Since it is not possible to confess all of our many daily faults, we know that sacramental reconciliation is required only for grave or mortal sins—but it is required, or Christ would not have commanded it.

I'm sorry, but I'll take my interpretation of the Bible from the Apostles and early church fathers, not a group that didn't come about for nearly 1600 years later.

I'm a Methodist.