Why do religious people cherish "Holy Lands"?

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jc6chan
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20 Dec 2010, 4:05 pm

And doing it to a point where you are willing to wage war just to defend it.

I am puzzled by it because most of the religions believe in an afterlife and so whats the point of getting all violent to cherish an earthly possesion or an earthly piece of land?

I'm not saying that people should do away with the "holy sites" but don't get all violent because of it.

I don't know about Islam or much of Judaism, but I'm a Christian and I don't believe in valuing a piece of land any more than another piece of land on this earth.

The following is from Matthew 6:19-21

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

I see this as telling people not to cherish anything on earth to a point where you're going to go to war over it. Even if the "holy places" are lost, there is Heaven to look forward to.



leejosepho
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20 Dec 2010, 4:14 pm

jc6chan wrote:
I am puzzled by it because most of the religions believe in an afterlife and so whats the point of getting all violent to cherish an earthly possession or an earthly piece of land?

I agree, at least to a point, because I wonder where the old Jerusalem will be when the new one arrives.


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pgd
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20 Dec 2010, 4:23 pm

Why do religious people cherish "Holy Lands"? - It's a fight over collection plate money. That's why Jerusalem was divided into four different religious quarters. That's why there are two tombs from which Jesus arose (Christian/Southern Baptist vs Italian Catholic). That's why the Hebron cave is divided into tours by Christians/Jews vs tours by Islamists. It's all about money, not God, unless one drops the veil of mystery and reveals the actual God of religions: the Golden Calf. The standard formula over the centuries has been: No questions allowed - convert or die (so to speak). Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition - Monty Python.



Nambo
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20 Dec 2010, 4:35 pm

Its Idolotry, Christians and Jews where told to "flee from Idoloatry", its worshipping an object rather than God.
I can only belive that Idolatrous religionists have so little actuall faith in God himself, that they have to use substitutes.

Some other famous Idols, the shroud of Turin.
Any piece of food that spells Muhammed.
The image of a serpant that the Hebrews had to look at to get over thier poisionus snake bites whilst in the wilderness, and from where we get the modern symbol for medicine from, Years later, King Hezziacia I think it ws, had to have it destriyed as the Jews had turned to worshipping it.
Satan actually had a dispute with Jesus over the location of Moses body, doubtless he wanted to use it as a great Idol.
The Catholic Church loves Idolotry, any old bone or mummy of a saint gets kept and wheeled out from time to time so worshippers can kiss its blackened feet.



naturalplastic
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20 Dec 2010, 4:41 pm

Good question.
According to Buddha all suffering is caused by attachment.
Attachment to material possesions is considered irreligous in virtually all religions.

Yet three religions feel an attachment to "the holy land" of Israel and the city of jerusalem, and of sites within jerusalem, and this attachment has caused jealousy.

This jealousy has caused 2000 years of suffering-and the infliction of suffering- which continues to this day( the Crusades, Zionism, counter crusades, anti-zionism).

If everyone fled Israel and the land slid into the sea like Atlantis and it ceased to exist as a land the world would be a simpler and more peaceful place.



jc6chan
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20 Dec 2010, 4:54 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

Yet three religions feel an attachment to "the holy land" of Israel and the city of jerusalem, and of sites within jerusalem, and this attachment has caused jealousy.


And its Islam's THIRD holiest site. Imagine some new religion suddenly sprang out where they lay claim that their founder died in Mecca. The world would be in chaos and may cease to exist as humanity would have already wiped itself out.



Philologos
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20 Dec 2010, 5:05 pm

Very few religions have a "holy land"

Rather more have holy sites - sities, or woods, or mountains.

And more than that venerate graveyards or shrines or trees.

It is a rare fluke that the three main religions -actually families of religions, but you will let me talk loosely - that have a "holy land" have the same one - and that one that has changed hands an incredible number of times just in the span of history.



ruveyn
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20 Dec 2010, 5:21 pm

Philologos wrote:
Very few religions have a "holy land"

Rather more have holy sites - sities, or woods, or mountains.

And more than that venerate graveyards or shrines or trees.

It is a rare fluke that the three main religions -actually families of religions, but you will let me talk loosely - that have a "holy land" have the same one - and that one that has changed hands an incredible number of times just in the span of history.


The holy land is where God lives.

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Chummy
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21 Dec 2010, 4:47 am

naturalplastic wrote:
If everyone fled Israel and the land slid into the sea like Atlantis and it ceased to exist as a land the world would be a simpler and more peaceful place.


So why not sink half of Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq and kurdistan all at the same time? If problems were solved like this we would be in a heap of trouble. Besides where would the people go? The Jews would get discriminated/slaughtered/assimilated in world communites and the muslims... well I doubt the arab countries would just accept them just like that (Look at what has been happening in Jordan's refugee camps).

Would the Italians mind if you sunk their country and gave them some deserted Island to live in? of course they would. It's called nationalism :)

@OP; It's not just about the land being holy, it's the land being a land. For the jews of Israel it's either live there of live in the sea, which is not that good...



ruveyn
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21 Dec 2010, 8:33 am

naturalplastic wrote:

If everyone fled Israel and the land slid into the sea like Atlantis and it ceased to exist as a land the world would be a simpler and more peaceful place.


No it wouldn't. The Jews would still be there, but in another place. The world simply cannot be comfortable around Jews. It is the way it is.

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21 Dec 2010, 9:21 am

Yea verily.

A man I once knew [if Master Pedant is reading this, he is the alpha-NDPite of whom I have spoken], a serious leftist, some of whose best friends were Jews [seriously], was heavily down on Jews.

His reason? They keep to themselves and claim to be special.

The Children of Israel are conscious, unrepentant Green Monkeys.

Water seeks its own level, and humanity as a lump hates difference. Which might seem strange since no two are the same.



ruveyn
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21 Dec 2010, 9:33 am

jc6chan wrote:
And doing it to a point where you are willing to wage war just to defend it.

I am puzzled by it because most of the religions believe in an afterlife and so whats the point of getting all violent to cherish an earthly possesion or an earthly piece of land?

I'm not saying that people should do away with the "holy sites" but don't get all violent because of it.

I don't know about Islam or much of Judaism, but I'm a Christian and I don't believe in valuing a piece of land any more than another piece of land on this earth.
.


The belief is that G-D appeared there and He stayed for a while.

ruveyn



naturalplastic
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21 Dec 2010, 1:25 pm

Chummy wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
If everyone fled Israel and the land slid into the sea like Atlantis and it ceased to exist as a land the world would be a simpler and more peaceful place.


So why not sink half of Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq and kurdistan all at the same time? If problems were solved like this we would be in a heap of trouble. Besides where would the people go? The Jews would get discriminated/slaughtered/assimilated in world communites and the muslims... well I doubt the arab countries would just accept them just like that (Look at what has been happening in Jordan's refugee camps).

Would the Italians mind if you sunk their country and gave them some deserted Island to live in? of course they would. It's called nationalism :)

@OP; It's not just about the land being holy, it's the land being a land. For the jews of Israel it's either live there of live in the sea, which is not that good...

The reason for not sinking africa etc is that Israel is only 8000 square miles (smaller than the state of maryland- the gaza strip is only half-again the size of the district of columbia) Africa is larger than the old soviet union.

With Israel you gain alot of peace for the sinking a tiny piece of real estate that wouldnt even be much valued if it werent land that had become "holy". The Crusades werent launched by the kings of Europe to liberate "the holy land" not to seize a part of africa.