The Best Islamic Apologist in Town!

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL-4zrGbbOQ[/youtube]

I truly have seen the error in my ways... no, not really.

Ive read the Quran and some of the Hadiths.
I cannot see how any Muslim could Love God, just be so terrified that they would pretend to Love him in order to escape the horrors he has planned, the Quran is full of the most horrendous tortures imaginable, endlessly repeated page after page, no wonder Muslims pray 5 times a day, dont know what they pray, maybe, " please God, dont troture me forever"

Further bizzarre teachings can be found curtesy of some of the great Rabbis, the one I particularily liked was of the fish in the sea that is 6000 miles long if I remember correctly.

I was talking to a friend about this, I my self am just an observer when it comes to religion, as I find it all facinating, but my friend was a die hard christian. we talked about how if you feared god why would you want to give your trust into someone you feared? It just sets up for the whole "fear in control" aspects that people could pick up on and use saying that god does the same thing.

Like I try to point out on a lot of my posts, God has been hi-jacked and used by religion to snare people for the benifit of men.
The Caotholic Church was also pretty good at frigtening people into giving them lots of men through fear of eternal torment.

A relationship with God, independant of mans religions leaves you free to discover, God can have anything he wants, except our Love, which we have to give freely, maybe you are a parent?, would you be pleased to see your child cowering in fear every time it saw you, doing what you asked because it thought you would burn it if it didnt?
Or would you prefer to see your child Love you so much, it would be happy every time it saw you, and do whatever it could to make you happy.

God is the same, all religions are a blasphemy to God.
Think about what Jesus did when he died for you, that is like you being condemned to death and tied down in the electric chair, then another fella comes along, and dies in your place so you can live.

That doesnt warrent fear, that warrents Love.

I really dislike the sort of psycho-social exploitation that I see a lot of Muslim proselytizers use. Sure, Christians also use quite a bit of "you're missing something" rhetoric, but it seems a bit more explicit in Islamic apologists.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuMgWK97Lsc[/youtube]

oh those silly muslims and their 6000 mile long fish (apparently?). good thing you don't believe anything crazy like that.....

^^^

You mean like believing that a random explosion created everything from nothing, by nothing and for no reason what so ever. Then following that a random occourance produced a form of life that for no good reason can subjectively reflect on the existence of such a universe.

We can all play the intellectual snobbery game that gets no one anywhere.

What less plausible about believing that the Universe either randomly started appearing or (more likely) has always existed or is derived from material/energy which has always existing acting according to regularities then believing that this "random structure" is so implausible that postulating a extra-cosmic being of unknowable properties and methods who simply has "always existed" with an exquisitely developed thought process intact who, for unknowable reasons, created the Universe and then, after billions of years of no life, allowed matter to jumble together in the right form to produce a differentially self-replicating being, and then a few billion years later had a guy consumed by a giant Fish to teach 'em a lesson?

To deny the possibility of the random causeless creation of the universe or the existence of an eternal creator is an exercise of profound foolishness. Conclusions have to be made from observed evidence and there is no way evidence exists for either conjecture. Both events can be speculated upon endlessly but they are unique and there is no current set of events that can apply. The reluctance of some obstinate and egotistical minds to admit they simply do not know results in intellectual farce. This is not to say evidence cannot be searched for but possibility is not probability and surely not certainty in this area of totally open speculation.

Muslims! No, Rabbis are Jewish, they have some ridculous teachings, the Bible is quite sensible in comparison even if you dont belive in a God to perform the miracles.
At least the Jews dont try to paint God as being the worst evil torturer that ever existed.

For PhiloLogos to inspect.

Nambo:

Muslims! No, Rabbis are Jewish, they have some ridculous teachings, the Bible is quite sensible in comparison even if you dont belive in a God to perform the miracles.
At least the Jews dont try to paint God as being the worst evil torturer that ever existed.

Master Pedant "For PhiloLogos to inspect.".

I am slightly handicapped - connection and other issues make the original clip and subsequent inaccessible But it is quite clear the thread got snarled early on.

I CAN say that the quote from Nambo, if it was typed when awake and to sober, betrays a somewhat unusual understanding.

I KNOW this is Wrong Planet - but on which planet is the Bible NOT a Jewish document? From end to end, if you don't mind the odd Egyptian story, lines of Ugaritic poetry, and the probably originally non-Hebraic book of Job?

But let us as a thought experiment, rephrase. Hypothetically, Nambo COULD mean to say:
"The Rabbis are not Muslim but Jewish. The Muslims have some ridculous teachings. The Bible is quite sensible in comparison even if you dont belive in a God to perform the miracles.
At least the Jews don't try to paint God as being the worst evil torturer that ever existed, as do the Muslims."

But this,like most of the Higher Criticism, is very tentative and rests on a very slim base.

One might point out at this juncture that among all divisions of the People of the Book there are those who focus more closely on the foundational documents - Pentateuch, Gospels, Qur'an - and those who are more into the ongoing experiential; the former often being more into doctrinal detail and the latter more into the ecstatic.

For the latter, that which is to some ridiculous or conflicting or offensive in the foundational documents is not that much a consideration.

Executive Summary: Youtube Muslim apologist uses stupid scare tactics to try and convince non-Muslims to join the Faith, atheist (in an instance of comedic genius) ridicules the shoot out of said apologist.

At my master computer [you don't need details, do you?] I managed to persuade the machine to limp through he clips enough to get a sense,

Clip number 1 - I have met and had productive talks with serious, well-informed, articulate Muslims. In this case, I have to say the commentary from the tobacco addicted gentleman was equivalent to annotating a stop sign. I would like to think the speaker was sincere. I would also like to think that his imam would issue a fatwa to keep him off the air.
Clip number 2 - I have, as I have said elsewhere, been privileged [and I do consider it an act of divine providence] to to experience this sort of thing from Christians. My sister was a Mormon for a while, i have of course spoken with Jehovah's Witnesses [while we could discuss this further, there are reasons for not including either in Nicene Christianity], and I have been accosted by Scientologists and other groups I did not stand still long enough to identify.

For some, certain kinds of persuasion and what is I believe called "love-bombing" seem to work. It worked at least for some months on my sister. It would never get me.

It does seem that at least in some places the Islamic equivalent of evangelists - but unlike fundamentalist I don't think that term has expanded outside Christianity - shall we say missionaries? - have adopted or adapted techniques proven by Moonies and others.

I would much prefer it if a Muslim concerned about my soul would say to me - as I once said to a Muslim - Read the New Testament, Read the Qur'an, Ask God to show you truth - trusting him not to lie. I don't understand why someone who TRUSTS in a god would rely on human techniques of propaganda and persuasion.

Despite the silly rantings of Syed Qutb, proper Islamic apologists do exist. Shabir Ali, is quite good. Though Islamic apologetics is perhaps not quite as widespread of a practice as in other religions.

Qtub's book -In the Shade of the Q'ran- is the Muslim version of -Mein Kampf-.

ruveyn