A horrible day in Taiji
I just wanted to post this today to let you those who are interested know what happened. You can go here http://nicolemclachlan.wordpress.com/20 ... to-action/ for the video and transcript of what I am going to tell you. First let me say that the girl who filmed and reported this is only 17 years old. She has been a "cove guardian" for several months now and I think she is an amazing girl. She is doing this under the the non profit group the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society who some of you may know from the show Whale Wars on Animal Planet. They are trying to help in Taiji as well. I get reports from them on Facebook every day. They go there to watch and to document what happens.
During the hunt five dolphins were driven to beach themselves on some rocks. The fishermen just left them there for an hour suffering, suffocating and cutting themselves on the sharp rocks while they slaughtered the rest of the dolphins. Then the came back and took the half dead dolphins from the rocks, drug them into the slaughter cove among their dead family member and butchered them.
Is this humane???? NO. Im sorry Im pretty upset today and I have sent emails to government officials in Japan and the idiots who harvest their "show" dolphins from the slaughter. If anyone wants to help you can look up "Misty the Dolphin" on facebook or go to savejapandolphins.org also you can find information on seashepherd.org go under "campaigns" and under "dolphins".
Also if anyone is wondering why the ones filming this did not go and try to save the dolphins it is because they would have been arrested for interfering with the fishermen and would have been deported for life. That means they could never come back and we need people there to document what is going on as they try to hide it all from the public. Im sure it must be so hard to prevent yourself from doing something. I have tons of respect for the people that do this.
During the hunt five dolphins were driven to beach themselves on some rocks. The fishermen just left them there for an hour suffering, suffocating and cutting themselves on the sharp rocks while they slaughtered the rest of the dolphins. Then the came back and took the half dead dolphins from the rocks, drug them into the slaughter cove among their dead family member and butchered them.
Is this humane???? NO. Im sorry Im pretty upset today and I have sent emails to government officials in Japan and the idiots who harvest their "show" dolphins from the slaughter. If anyone wants to help you can look up "Misty the Dolphin" on facebook or go to savejapandolphins.org also you can find information on seashepherd.org go under "campaigns" and under "dolphins".
Also if anyone is wondering why the ones filming this did not go and try to save the dolphins it is because they would have been arrested for interfering with the fishermen and would have been deported for life. That means they could never come back and we need people there to document what is going on as they try to hide it all from the public. Im sure it must be so hard to prevent yourself from doing something. I have tons of respect for the people that do this.
What is wrong with eating mammalian meat?
And the Sea Shepherds (so-called) are pirate thugs. Whenever they go up against the Japanese Whalers I root for the Japanese (which for me is rather difficult since I never forgave them for Pearl Harbor).
ruveyn
What is wrong with eating mammalian meat?
And the Sea Shepherds (so-called) are pirate thugs. Whenever they go up against the Japanese Whalers I root for the Japanese (which for me is rather difficult since I never forgave them for Pearl Harbor).
ruveyn
I think you missed the part about these animals being tortured before being slaughtered. Also Dolphin meat is very high in Mercury so I guess that is a good enough reason not to eat it. I personally have a problem with people killing and eating cetaceans or I wouldnt have posted!
You can have what every opinion you want of the Sea Shepherd organization. My opinion is that they care so deeply about these animals that they are willing to risk their lives to save them. Maybe you believe it would be better just to allow people to push these animals to extinction?
sartresue
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What is wrong with eating mammalian meat?
And the Sea Shepherds (so-called) are pirate thugs. Whenever they go up against the Japanese Whalers I root for the Japanese (which for me is rather difficult since I never forgave them for Pearl Harbor).
ruveyn
I think you missed the part about these animals being tortured before being slaughtered. Also Dolphin meat is very high in Mercury so I guess that is a good enough reason not to eat it. I personally have a problem with people killing and eating cetaceans or I wouldnt have posted!
You can have what every opinion you want of the Sea Shepherd organization. My opinion is that they care so deeply about these animals that they are willing to risk their lives to save them. Maybe you believe it would be better just to allow people to push these animals to extinction?
Mercury rising topic
I just do not see the point in animals suffering. Why do the hunters make such a big deal about killing them? Just do it like Bear Grylls, or most aboriginal hunters, or even large African predators: Quick and to the point, that is, to eat, to survive.
Perhaps the killing is some sort of ritual? Maybe these hunters could explain why they do it this way. Makes no sense to me. I have already posted in the other Japan Dolphins thread just what my opinions are.
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They feel that it is their tradition and part of their culture. I understand that, however, in some places it used to be tradition to sacrifice virgins. Just because something is a tradition does not mean you need to continue with it especially when a large majority of the public want this tradition to end. The problem is that the younger Japanese generation are not interested in eating whale or dolphin meat and are upset at the fact that the government did nothing to warn them of the dangers of eating it.
I sometimes wonder how much of this meat is just going to waste?...the thought of that makes me even more upset.
The attention paid to this issue is pretty silly. Most of the concern is caused by, "HEY BUT DOLPHINS ARE CUTE! And WE don't eat them!"
At least they're hunting the dolphins. I'd rather have my food "slaughtered in front of its brothers and sisters" than raised physically maimed, genetically manipulated, jammed into a cage with 100 others like it, and never allowed to walk...like American-farmed turkeys, for example.
I'd be more concerned with the mercury levels in the meat.
At least they're hunting the dolphins. I'd rather have my food "slaughtered in front of its brothers and sisters" than raised physically maimed, genetically manipulated, jammed into a cage with 100 others like it, and never allowed to walk...like American-farmed turkeys, for example.
I'd be more concerned with the mercury levels in the meat.
You said exactly what I was going to say.

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"At the source of every error blamed on the computer, you will find two human errors, including the error of blaming it on the computer."
"Animal rights" is another way of saying "I'm alienated from the natural world".
When I lived in Florida, there was a lake at my apartment complex and my unit was by one of the streams where the ducks regularly waded through. And also fairly regularly, a hawk would come swooping down, pick up one of the ducklings, the ducks would make a big ruckus, and the hawk would plop down on the roof of the building across from mine and get to work tearing apart the live animal and eating it. I had the luck of seeing this happen on multiple occasions (if you ever lived around ducks, you know why I say this was luck).
This kind of stuff is normal. Animals die. If you're concerned about numbers, that is another argument but what you're putting forward is merely a concern of the violence itself and that isn't a problem. If you're concerned about factory farms and what not, there actually is some legitimate research to support that but there's also the matter of not being able to feed everyone in the world and so such measures are necessary because we come first.
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Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
When I lived in Florida, there was a lake at my apartment complex and my unit was by one of the streams where the ducks regularly waded through. And also fairly regularly, a hawk would come swooping down, pick up one of the ducklings, the ducks would make a big ruckus, and the hawk would plop down on the roof of the building across from mine and get to work tearing apart the live animal and eating it. I had the luck of seeing this happen on multiple occasions (if you ever lived around ducks, you know why I say this was luck).
This kind of stuff is normal. Animals die. If you're concerned about numbers, that is another argument but what you're putting forward is merely a concern of the violence itself and that isn't a problem. If you're concerned about factory farms and what not, there actually is some legitimate research to support that but there's also the matter of not being able to feed everyone in the world and so such measures are necessary because we come first.
I think I may ask permission to quote you on that first line!
I also lived in Florida for several years, and it certainly gets you very used to seeing dead animals. So many developed countries have totally lost touch with the concept of "natural" and what that actually means when it comes to food production.
It is a myth that world hunger is due to scarcity of food. The actual problem is poverty: people cannot afford to buy what food is available. There is actually a surplus of food produced globally; the problem is distribution. It's a bureaucratic problem.
When distro is a problem, that normally means that the costs to move the food to the necessary places is what is incurring the costs. Refrigeration costs, fuel costs, maintenance costs...those are all real things that require production and money as well. So I'm not quite sure you could call it all a bureaucratic problem. A production problem, maybe. Shortage problem if you're one to believe in peak oil. But I'm not too sure bureaucratic is the best way to describe it alone. Though a shortage of smaller, local farms that could bring items to market without as many distribution costs could very well be a bureaucratic and legislative issue.
But again, I don't think saying simply "well, if they could just get the paperwork straight, people would stop dying of starvation" is really respecting the size of the issue or the devils of detail that need to be covered to effectively attack such problems rather than frustrated politicians eventually simply letting some omnicorp take over everything...Monsanto, anyone? Requires that we as a voting populous, or at least the activists who seek to shape such issues, are much more informed and much more willing to attack at the details.
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Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
sartresue
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I sometimes wonder how much of this meat is just going to waste?...the thought of that makes me even more upset.
Trad-di-tion!! ! topic
If a large majority of the public and the young people in Japan are not interested then it will only be a matter of time before this dolphin hunt is history. This is good news, and i know the hunt is still on and might continue for awhile, but the fact that there are protests is a good thing.

Soon there will be limits on dolphin meat, as there are on whaling kills.
As for Ska and the hawk story, this is a different kettle of ducks: Nature is necessarily cruel, but as Temple Grandin has said, we do not have to be. (though I have seen the inside of an aboittoir, and it ain't pretty).
Ever watched a cat hunt a mouse, bird or squirrel? This is to be expected. I have seen footage of dolphins prey on a shark and rip it to shreds. If those Japanese hunters are not careful, one could end up like said shark.

Nature is indeed cruel.

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That's yet to be seen.
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Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
When distro is a problem, that normally means that the costs to move the food to the necessary places is what is incurring the costs. Refrigeration costs, fuel costs, maintenance costs...those are all real things that require production and money as well. So I'm not quite sure you could call it all a bureaucratic problem. A production problem, maybe. Shortage problem if you're one to believe in peak oil. But I'm not too sure bureaucratic is the best way to describe it alone. Though a shortage of smaller, local farms that could bring items to market without as many distribution costs could very well be a bureaucratic and legislative issue.
But again, I don't think saying simply "well, if they could just get the paperwork straight, people would stop dying of starvation" is really respecting the size of the issue or the devils of detail that need to be covered to effectively attack such problems rather than frustrated politicians eventually simply letting some omnicorp take over everything...Monsanto, anyone? Requires that we as a voting populous, or at least the activists who seek to shape such issues, are much more informed and much more willing to attack at the details.
*hi5* for simultaneous Montesano references.

I believe by calling it a bureaucratic problem I'm implying the sheer scope, complexity, and near-impossibility of a solution. One of the best speeches I've heard on the topic was from Bill Clinton at Ted Talk. I highly recommend it if you're interested in sociology or global economics.

Yes, I was implying local, sustainable solutions. Foreign Aid and the prohibitive costs of transporting food from half across the world isn't a solution to the problem, it's barely a band-aid. It's your basic "Give a man a fish; teach a man to fish" dilemma. I went on a rant to my sociology professor last semester about so many politicians and officials going "blah blah HOPE, Blah blah global togetherness, blah blah, humanity!"
Blahblah and idealism doesn't put food into people's mouths. Skilled Aspergians who can draw up an economic model and run statistics CAN. The devil is in the details, and so is real, CONCRETE change that makes an actual difference instead of wringing the pocket change out of the privileged and guilty elite.
This is much more fun talking about with people who have read a book, instead of the semi-literate children at my college parroting opinions they've heard from the un- and mis-informed.
When distro is a problem, that normally means that the costs to move the food to the necessary places is what is incurring the costs. Refrigeration costs, fuel costs, maintenance costs...those are all real things that require production and money as well. So I'm not quite sure you could call it all a bureaucratic problem. A production problem, maybe. Shortage problem if you're one to believe in peak oil. But I'm not too sure bureaucratic is the best way to describe it alone. Though a shortage of smaller, local farms that could bring items to market without as many distribution costs could very well be a bureaucratic and legislative issue.
But again, I don't think saying simply "well, if they could just get the paperwork straight, people would stop dying of starvation" is really respecting the size of the issue or the devils of detail that need to be covered to effectively attack such problems rather than frustrated politicians eventually simply letting some omnicorp take over everything...Monsanto, anyone? Requires that we as a voting populous, or at least the activists who seek to shape such issues, are much more informed and much more willing to attack at the details.
*hi5* for simultaneous Montesano references.

I believe by calling it a bureaucratic problem I'm implying the sheer scope, complexity, and near-impossibility of a solution. One of the best speeches I've heard on the topic was from Bill Clinton at Ted Talk. I highly recommend it if you're interested in sociology or global economics.

Yes, I was implying local, sustainable solutions. Foreign Aid and the prohibitive costs of transporting food from half across the world isn't a solution to the problem, it's barely a band-aid. It's your basic "Give a man a fish; teach a man to fish" dilemma. I went on a rant to my sociology professor last semester about so many politicians and officials going "blah blah HOPE, Blah blah global togetherness, blah blah, humanity!"
Blahblah and idealism doesn't put food into people's mouths. Skilled Aspergians who can draw up an economic model and run statistics CAN. The devil is in the details, and so is real, CONCRETE change that makes an actual difference instead of wringing the pocket change out of the privileged and guilty elite.
This is much more fun talking about with people who have read a book, instead of the semi-literate children at my college parroting opinions they've heard from the un- and mis-informed.
Clinton spoke at TED??
I need to find this now. I normally go more for the science speeches...some of the sociological stuff but normally more tech.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
The Mercury levels were first uncovered by a Japanese scientist and the conservationist's are using this angle as a strong arm, so to speak. Like I said in one of my other posts. Its not that I have no concern over other issues but right now this is my main issue. I am concerned with the inhumane slaughter of dolphins and whales in Japan and a few other parts of the world. Just like everything else you pick your battles. Also this has nothing to do with how "cute" dolphins are (I dont view dolphins as cute, kittens are cute) it has more to do with the fact that they are self aware in the same way that we and also chimps are. I also feel that if some living being is going to be killed for food that it should be done humanely, this is not the dark ages. I should think that we, as human beings, are intelligent enough to kill our food humanely. Also the majority of large prey animals kill quickly, typically by breaking the neck of their victim. If you watch The Cove you will see that it takes an hour or longer to kill a pod of dolphins (this does not include the entire day the spend roped into the cove and also does not include the terror of the drive itself) and very few of them are offered a quick death. There is a horrible clip in the documentary that shows a dolphin who came over the nets from the killing cove flopping in the water in obvious severe pain and you could see two large stab wounds as it came out of the water several times until finally it went under the water to die. Then there is the video of the guys (dolphins) stuck against the rocks for an hour, cutting themselves and suffocating while their family is being murdered a few yards away from them.
I watched The Cove twice (once by myself and once with my husband). The second time I just could not watch the slaughter toward the end of the movie again. To me its nearly akin to watching children being killed and it was very traumatic for me.
I am well aware that there are people out there who think this is ok or that its silly with all that goes on in the world to worry about dolphins, I just think differently.
Yes, I was implying local, sustainable solutions. Foreign Aid and the prohibitive costs of transporting food from half across the world isn't a solution to the problem, it's barely a band-aid. It's your basic "Give a man a fish; teach a man to fish" dilemma. I went on a rant to my sociology professor last semester about so many politicians and officials going "blah blah HOPE, Blah blah global togetherness, blah blah, humanity!"
Blahblah and idealism doesn't put food into people's mouths. Skilled Aspergians who can draw up an economic model and run statistics CAN. The devil is in the details, and so is real, CONCRETE change that makes an actual difference instead of wringing the pocket change out of the privileged and guilty elite.
Unfortunately there are economic and political benefits to keeping Africa and most SE asian nations at their current misery levels. If Africa could build a self-sufficient agricultural and industrial base in 50 years time the politics and economics of europe and america would be severely destabilized by the entry of an entire continent into the competitor's market. Look at how drastic Chinese and Indian industrialization hurt the western economies as an example.