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Former Republican Presidents/Candidates don't like Trump

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QFT
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18 May 2020, 1:35 am

Here is an interesting contrast:

1. Right or wrong, the vast majority of Republicans like Trump

2. The specific Republicans that happened to be either former presidents or former candidates -- in particular, Bush, McCain and Romney -- dislike him, and do so quite blantly:

a) McCain said he didn't want Trump on his funeral
b) Romney was the only Republican who voted in favor of impeaching Trump
c) Bush said he won't vote for Trump in 2016 and he spoke negatively on Trumps presidency once he was elected

Now contrast it with the first observation that most Republicans like Trump. So why is it that the former candidates or presidents were the ONLY republicans to stray from their own party line? Do you think there is a connection between this and the fact that they were former candidates/presidents, or do you think its just a coincidence?

My personal theory is that the Republican party line follows a current prominent Republican. Since different Republicans are different, the Republican party line changes. BUT the past prominent Republicans are "frozen" in whoever THEY used to be. So they are like the window into the past. The fact that Bush/McCain/Romney dislikes Trump means that Trump would have been disliked by Republicans in the past. But Bush/McCain/Romney are the only Republicans that stayed in the past (since their past compaigns have forever attached them to their respective pasts) and, therefore, those are the only Republicans that dislike Trump.

But thats just my own theory. What is your opinion on this?



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18 May 2020, 4:38 am

Trump insulted all of them.


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18 May 2020, 5:46 am

QFT wrote:
Here is an interesting contrast:

1. Right or wrong, the vast majority of Republicans like Trump

2. The specific Republicans that happened to be either former presidents or former candidates -- in particular, Bush, McCain and Romney -- dislike him, and do so quite blantly:

a) McCain said he didn't want Trump on his funeral
b) Romney was the only Republican who voted in favor of impeaching Trump
c) Bush said he won't vote for Trump in 2016 and he spoke negatively on Trumps presidency once he was elected

Now contrast it with the first observation that most Republicans like Trump. So why is it that the former candidates or presidents were the ONLY republicans to stray from their own party line? Do you think there is a connection between this and the fact that they were former candidates/presidents, or do you think its just a coincidence?

My personal theory is that the Republican party line follows a current prominent Republican. Since different Republicans are different, the Republican party line changes. BUT the past prominent Republicans are "frozen" in whoever THEY used to be. So they are like the window into the past. The fact that Bush/McCain/Romney dislikes Trump means that Trump would have been disliked by Republicans in the past. But Bush/McCain/Romney are the only Republicans that stayed in the past (since their past compaigns have forever attached them to their respective pasts) and, therefore, those are the only Republicans that dislike Trump.

But thats just my own theory. What is your opinion on this?


Well duhhhhh…

Trump is all about dumping on conservative values, and dumping on Republican party values. So you would expect Republicans to hate Trump. And the GOP elite does hate him. Though most of that party elite keeps its hatred under wraps to go along with Trump. So the fact that former GOP POTUS hate Trump is to be expected. These former POTUS and former POTUS condidates differ from Mitch McConnell, and Ted Cruz, and Mike Pence, etc by being out of office. And thus they have nothing to loose by being honest about their dislike of Trump.

But yes, to the dismay of the GOP elite, the grassroots GOP voters took to Trump with a fervor.

Both American parties had populist uprisings in the 16 election. The elite of the Dem party was almost overthrown by Sanders. And the GOP elite did end up being commandeered by Trump. So both parties have a certain amount of disconnect between the grassroots and the elite. Or they did back in 16.



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18 May 2020, 8:35 am

naturalplastic wrote:
QFT wrote:
Here is an interesting contrast:

1. Right or wrong, the vast majority of Republicans like Trump

2. The specific Republicans that happened to be either former presidents or former candidates -- in particular, Bush, McCain and Romney -- dislike him, and do so quite blantly:

a) McCain said he didn't want Trump on his funeral
b) Romney was the only Republican who voted in favor of impeaching Trump
c) Bush said he won't vote for Trump in 2016 and he spoke negatively on Trumps presidency once he was elected

Now contrast it with the first observation that most Republicans like Trump. So why is it that the former candidates or presidents were the ONLY republicans to stray from their own party line? Do you think there is a connection between this and the fact that they were former candidates/presidents, or do you think its just a coincidence?

My personal theory is that the Republican party line follows a current prominent Republican. Since different Republicans are different, the Republican party line changes. BUT the past prominent Republicans are "frozen" in whoever THEY used to be. So they are like the window into the past. The fact that Bush/McCain/Romney dislikes Trump means that Trump would have been disliked by Republicans in the past. But Bush/McCain/Romney are the only Republicans that stayed in the past (since their past compaigns have forever attached them to their respective pasts) and, therefore, those are the only Republicans that dislike Trump.

But thats just my own theory. What is your opinion on this?


Well duhhhhh…

Trump is all about dumping on conservative values, and dumping on Republican party values. So you would expect Republicans to hate Trump. And the GOP elite does hate him. Though most of that party elite keeps its hatred under wraps to go along with Trump. So the fact that former GOP POTUS hate Trump is to be expected. These former POTUS and former POTUS condidates differ from Mitch McConnell, and Ted Cruz, and Mike Pence, etc by being out of office. And thus they have nothing to loose by being honest about their dislike of Trump.

But yes, to the dismay of the GOP elite, the grassroots GOP voters took to Trump with a fervor.

Both American parties had populist uprisings in the 16 election. The elite of the Dem party was almost overthrown by Sanders. And the GOP elite did end up being commandeered by Trump. So both parties have a certain amount of disconnect between the grassroots and the elite. Or they did back in 16.


So, to summarize what you are saying, you said that what separates former presidents/presidential candidates from the rest of the Republicans is that

(i) They are elite
(ii) They are out of office so they have nothing to lose

But that doesn't fully explain it though. What about Romney being the only one in the senate voting to remove Trump from the office. Are you sure that Romney was the *only* Republican in the senate who met (i) and (ii)? Its just hard to believe thats the case. He *was*, however, the only one who was former presidential candidate. So maybe there is something *else* that being former presidential candidate brings with it?



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18 May 2020, 8:49 am

I have been traditionally a republican since my youth but the Bush 43 admin and the currant Trump admin has pushed me more toward an independent.


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18 May 2020, 8:54 am

Who cares why those political has-beens hate Trump, just so long as they hate him?


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kraftiekortie
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18 May 2020, 8:58 am

Romney only voted against one of the Articles. He voted FOR the other one.

Saying this, the anti-Trump Republicans seem to have little influence over the GOP in general.

What’s going to make Trump lose will be losing the swing states he won in 2016. If Trump loses Florida, he’s pretty much meat.



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18 May 2020, 9:03 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Romney only voted against one of the Articles. He voted FOR the other one.


But it is still quite spectacular that he was the *only* one who voted for one of the articles.

kraftiekortie wrote:
Saying this, the anti-Trump Republicans seem to have little influence over the GOP in general.

What’s going to make Trump lose will be losing the swing states he won in 2016. If Trump loses Florida, he’s pretty much meat.


I am not asking "what would make Trump lose"; rather, I am asking a sociological question "what is the reason behind the observed pattern".



kraftiekortie
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18 May 2020, 9:10 am

Because Trump is seen by many idiots as the guy who will keep out all those immigrants......



QFT
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18 May 2020, 9:38 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Because Trump is seen by many idiots as the guy who will keep out all those immigrants......


The question is: what does separate former presidential candidates from them? Why such a spectacular coincidence that the only Republicans to criticize Trump are *precisely* the former presidents or presidential candidates?



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18 May 2020, 9:40 am

QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
QFT wrote:
Here is an interesting contrast:

1. Right or wrong, the vast majority of Republicans like Trump

2. The specific Republicans that happened to be either former presidents or former candidates -- in particular, Bush, McCain and Romney -- dislike him, and do so quite blantly:

a) McCain said he didn't want Trump on his funeral
b) Romney was the only Republican who voted in favor of impeaching Trump
c) Bush said he won't vote for Trump in 2016 and he spoke negatively on Trumps presidency once he was elected

Now contrast it with the first observation that most Republicans like Trump. So why is it that the former candidates or presidents were the ONLY republicans to stray from their own party line? Do you think there is a connection between this and the fact that they were former candidates/presidents, or do you think its just a coincidence?

My personal theory is that the Republican party line follows a current prominent Republican. Since different Republicans are different, the Republican party line changes. BUT the past prominent Republicans are "frozen" in whoever THEY used to be. So they are like the window into the past. The fact that Bush/McCain/Romney dislikes Trump means that Trump would have been disliked by Republicans in the past. But Bush/McCain/Romney are the only Republicans that stayed in the past (since their past compaigns have forever attached them to their respective pasts) and, therefore, those are the only Republicans that dislike Trump.

But thats just my own theory. What is your opinion on this?


Well duhhhhh…

Trump is all about dumping on conservative values, and dumping on Republican party values. So you would expect Republicans to hate Trump. And the GOP elite does hate him. Though most of that party elite keeps its hatred under wraps to go along with Trump. So the fact that former GOP POTUS hate Trump is to be expected. These former POTUS and former POTUS condidates differ from Mitch McConnell, and Ted Cruz, and Mike Pence, etc by being out of office. And thus they have nothing to loose by being honest about their dislike of Trump.

But yes, to the dismay of the GOP elite, the grassroots GOP voters took to Trump with a fervor.

Both American parties had populist uprisings in the 16 election. The elite of the Dem party was almost overthrown by Sanders. And the GOP elite did end up being commandeered by Trump. So both parties have a certain amount of disconnect between the grassroots and the elite. Or they did back in 16.


So, to summarize what you are saying, you said that what separates former presidents/presidential candidates from the rest of the Republicans is that

(i) They are elite
(ii) They are out of office so they have nothing to lose

But that doesn't fully explain it though. What about Romney being the only one in the senate voting to remove Trump from the office. Are you sure that Romney was the *only* Republican in the senate who met (i) and (ii)? Its just hard to believe thats the case. He *was*, however, the only one who was former presidential candidate. So maybe there is something *else* that being former presidential candidate brings with it?


Romney is in office, but planning to retire, and not to run again. Or that's my understanding. So he is not an exception to what I said.



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18 May 2020, 9:43 am

naturalplastic wrote:
QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
QFT wrote:
Here is an interesting contrast:

1. Right or wrong, the vast majority of Republicans like Trump

2. The specific Republicans that happened to be either former presidents or former candidates -- in particular, Bush, McCain and Romney -- dislike him, and do so quite blantly:

a) McCain said he didn't want Trump on his funeral
b) Romney was the only Republican who voted in favor of impeaching Trump
c) Bush said he won't vote for Trump in 2016 and he spoke negatively on Trumps presidency once he was elected

Now contrast it with the first observation that most Republicans like Trump. So why is it that the former candidates or presidents were the ONLY republicans to stray from their own party line? Do you think there is a connection between this and the fact that they were former candidates/presidents, or do you think its just a coincidence?

My personal theory is that the Republican party line follows a current prominent Republican. Since different Republicans are different, the Republican party line changes. BUT the past prominent Republicans are "frozen" in whoever THEY used to be. So they are like the window into the past. The fact that Bush/McCain/Romney dislikes Trump means that Trump would have been disliked by Republicans in the past. But Bush/McCain/Romney are the only Republicans that stayed in the past (since their past compaigns have forever attached them to their respective pasts) and, therefore, those are the only Republicans that dislike Trump.

But thats just my own theory. What is your opinion on this?


Well duhhhhh…

Trump is all about dumping on conservative values, and dumping on Republican party values. So you would expect Republicans to hate Trump. And the GOP elite does hate him. Though most of that party elite keeps its hatred under wraps to go along with Trump. So the fact that former GOP POTUS hate Trump is to be expected. These former POTUS and former POTUS condidates differ from Mitch McConnell, and Ted Cruz, and Mike Pence, etc by being out of office. And thus they have nothing to loose by being honest about their dislike of Trump.

But yes, to the dismay of the GOP elite, the grassroots GOP voters took to Trump with a fervor.

Both American parties had populist uprisings in the 16 election. The elite of the Dem party was almost overthrown by Sanders. And the GOP elite did end up being commandeered by Trump. So both parties have a certain amount of disconnect between the grassroots and the elite. Or they did back in 16.


So, to summarize what you are saying, you said that what separates former presidents/presidential candidates from the rest of the Republicans is that

(i) They are elite
(ii) They are out of office so they have nothing to lose

But that doesn't fully explain it though. What about Romney being the only one in the senate voting to remove Trump from the office. Are you sure that Romney was the *only* Republican in the senate who met (i) and (ii)? Its just hard to believe thats the case. He *was*, however, the only one who was former presidential candidate. So maybe there is something *else* that being former presidential candidate brings with it?


Romney is in office, but planning to retire, and not to run again. Or that's my understanding. So he is not an exception to what I said.


But he is not the *only* one in the entire senate who meets that description. Yet he was the *only* one to vote that particular way.



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18 May 2020, 9:45 am

QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Romney is in office, but planning to retire, and not to run again. Or that's my understanding. So he is not an exception to what I said.
But he is not the *only* one in the entire senate who meets that description. Yet he was the *only* one to vote that particular way.
So?  What point are you trying to make, or are you just pointing out the obvious?


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18 May 2020, 9:55 am

Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Romney is in office, but planning to retire, and not to run again. Or that's my understanding. So he is not an exception to what I said.
But he is not the *only* one in the entire senate who meets that description. Yet he was the *only* one to vote that particular way.
So?  What point are you trying to make, or are you just pointing out the obvious?


I am asking the question rather than making a point. The question is: does anyone know the explanation behind this pattern? This is an intellectual curiosity. It has nothing to do with wanting to either keep Trump in the office or get him out of the office. Rather, it has to do with trying to understand for the sake of trying to understand.



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18 May 2020, 10:02 am

Many Republicans are afraid of Trump.....and losing the votes of his supporters.



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18 May 2020, 10:06 am

QFT wrote:
Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Romney is in office, but planning to retire, and not to run again. Or that's my understanding. So he is not an exception to what I said.
But he is not the *only* one in the entire senate who meets that description. Yet he was the *only* one to vote that particular way.
So?  What point are you trying to make, or are you just pointing out the obvious?
I am asking the question rather than making a point. The question is: does anyone know the explanation behind this pattern? ...
Another obvious answer: Trump is a jerk, and he is making the entire G.O.P. look worse than it actually is.  Not only does this damage the G.O.P. in general, but it casts all G.O.P. policies in a bad light and makes every G.O.P. candidate -- past, present, and future -- look like a jerk by association.


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