Hosea 11:1 and Jesus being "called out of Egypt"

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This is our sixth in a series of debates concerning supposed Old Testament prophecies which are alleged to have forecasted events recorded in the New Testament.

It all started here: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt151898.html

The original purpose was, I think, to persuade Jews to become Christians because of the links between the Old Testament predictions and the New Testament fulfillments of said predictions.

So far, we are running 5-0 in favour of the Jews/Atheists/Skeptics.

Our sixth debate concerns Hosea 11:1

How is Hosea "predicting" anything?
Im just a laymen, but when I read the sentence it sounds like its just a recap of Exodus ( and thus about the past and not about any future).

"Israel" is a nation, not a person.

Its like an American saying "America's had its infancy in the British Empire but it was called to freedom and won its independence".

It simply stating that the Hebrew nation was born in Egypt but was called out of Egypt to the promised land that it now (the later time when Hosea was speaking) occupies.

Obviously "Israel" could mean a "king" of Israel. You could it stretch the words to mean anything. But if its a prophesy of the future then why is it written in the past tense?

You're right. It does seem that Matthew is just trying to quote Old Testament verses just so that he can seem impressive. Rather like Rush Limbaugh quoting from the Founding Fathers.

I don't see how that passage from Hosea could even be construed as predicting that Jesus was going to be "called out of Egypt." When Matthew was writing the gospel, he probably just had it in his mind that Jesus had to have "come out of Egypt" for some reason (maybe based on a list that a buddy had made of Old Testament prophecies concerning the Messiah, or maybe based on something he might have read in the equivalent of the National Enquirer of the day), and then constructed his gospel to have the supposed prophecies fulfilled, however tenuously.

Well, no-one seems interested in proffering an argument that Hosea had anything at all to do with Jesus being "called out of Egypt," as reported by Matthew. I don't know how Christians can expect to convert anyone, if they run away whenever anyone starts reading their material.

With this one, the Christians are now behind 0-6.

I don't know. We may just end up consigning Christianity to the ash heap of history, if none of the prophesies end up working out.

Even without science, people should be able to read the material and make an informed judgment.