Islam emerges as key issue for GOP (2011)

Page 3 of 4 [ 50 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,582

11 Mar 2011, 2:19 pm

First, I'm not a Democrat (well, I'm not American, so I guess that's no surprise... I'm Canadian, and I identify with the Liberals, the NDP (sometimes), and the Green Party).

The thing is that the Republicans present all of Islam as a problem. But it is not the religion that is a problem, it is the FUNDAMENTALISM. Just as fundamentalist Christians are a problem.

And during my research I looked at the Wikipedia page on the main Islamic association in Canada (can't speak for the States, sorry) I found that they are vehemently against terrorism and extremism. In fact, they give warnings to parents about what behaviour might indicate that their children are being recruited to a terrorist cell, and what sort of strange groups to watch out for joining a local mosque. So I don't think it's fair to associate main-stream Islam with terrorism.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,846
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

11 Mar 2011, 2:20 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

And I seriously doubt that Republicans are referring to a liberal Muslim Group as a problem.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/wat ... your-pape/

This is hilarious, how Dems try to turn things into a PC or a rant about the KKK, look the KKK is nuts but they haven't flown aircraft into buildings full of people recently.

But I'm sure if you tabulate all the lynchings the Klan is guilty of, it would exceed the 3,000 plus.
And speaking of liberal Muslims; it's funny how liberalism for Republicans is okay in Islam, but not in any part of mainstream American society.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

11 Mar 2011, 2:26 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Because the liberalism can have multiple meanings.

The Muslims being called liberal are actually more in line with Republican Conservatism in the idea of limited government.

Liberalism in the form seen in Democrats can be classified as insanity.

AstroGeek
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,582

11 Mar 2011, 4:42 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Liberalism in the form seen in Democrats can be classified as insanity.

Really? In what sane system are people told that they can not marry the person they love because of an obscure chapter of a book written 3000 years ago? In what sane system are people allowed to die on the street because they can't afford healthcare? Hmm... who thinks like this. Oh, the Republicans!

And the liberals are insane?

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

11 Mar 2011, 4:47 pm

AstroGeek wrote:

In what sane system are people told that they can not marry the person they love because of an obscure chapter of a book written 3000 years ago?

Not anything in my book and I bet that's true for a lot of Republicans too.

(I don't live in the US but none of the major parties in the UK are religiously influenced in that way and none proscribe marriages that are prohibited in the Bible, though there are some minor fundamentalist organisations, the BNP / NF and some of the Northern Irish Unionist parties that aren't too happy about things of that nature.)

I live in the UK and vote and support UKIP. If I was in the US I would probably vote Republican and I would never vote along religious lines. Secularism is very important to me.

AstroGeek
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,582

11 Mar 2011, 5:02 pm

But the problem with American politics is that everything is SO polarized. There's the religious/right-wing/conservative Republicans and there's the more secular/left-wing/liberal Democrats. So if you agree with right-wing economics (please, let's not go there, there's already enough heated discussion on this thread without bringing that up too) but are an atheist (or a moderate Christian, I'm just using atheist as an extreme) then you have to choose between a party that supports separation of church and state but which favours the left-wing economics and a party that like to pretend the Founding Fathers never wanted church and state to be separate, despise non-Christians, think (at best) that gays are unAmerican, like to make up science to go into the school curriculum, but who support left-wing economics. To support one thing you might have to support something you are vehemently against. Can't say it would be much a problem for me (I agree with the Democrats on everything I can think of off the top of my head) but it's obviously troublesome for other people.

Fortunately for you and me, Tequila, Canada and Britain aren't like that so much. All of the (major) parties leave religion out of the debate and you can focus on the actual politics.

AstroGeek
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,582

11 Mar 2011, 5:04 pm

On a side note, is it actually constituationally possible for the Republicans to take a stance against Islam. I mean, Americans are guaranteed freedom of religion (although some days you wouldn't know it). So unless a Muslim actually does stone someone, or commit some other felony, there's not much the government can do about it.

ryan93
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,315
Location: Galway, Ireland

11 Mar 2011, 5:14 pm

Quote:

Wrong. A bit of quick research finds that there is a liberal Muslim movement, which tries to reconcile Islam with Western ethics. No doubt it isn't as wide spread as it should be, but it shows that such views are possible. I've given a link below:

I'm aware of the growing Liberal Muslim movement, many western Muslims are quite liberal; but by ignoring the explicit hatred of the Koran, and ignoring the specific command NOT to take the Koran in anything but the literal sense they are essentially separating themselves from true Islam. Which is great for normal, moral people, of course, but it's difficult to call ignoring the book "Islam".

Don't get me wrong. Most Muslims are okay. But the book certainly isn't, and it is dangerous for people to think it to be absolutely moral.

Quote:

The problem isn't a particular religion, but FUNDAMENTALISM. The problem is, Islamic society hasn't progressed to the point yet where most people are more moderate

Fundamentalism isn't necessary in Christianity (correct me if I'm wrong) because the text can be taken metaphorically without any real issues. The Koran warns against metaphorically interpretation. So moderate Islam can't really be justified by the book. Surely you can imagine that a religion's holy book COULD be bad, right?

I imagine I might seem like some right wing nut, but I'm not, I'm firmly egalitarian. But a bad book is a bad book.

_________________
The scientist only imposes two things, namely truth and sincerity, imposes them upon himself and upon other scientists - Erwin Schrodinger

Member of the WP Strident Atheists

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

11 Mar 2011, 5:19 pm

AstroGeek wrote:

You could be a libertarian (Ron Paul-style) Republican? He is quite popular here in the UK amongst libertarians both in the Tories and UKIP and non-party political ones.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,846
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

11 Mar 2011, 7:05 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Liberal Muslims have more in common with Republicans?
Why is it then that practically every liberal and moderate Muslim I've ever seen interviewed is a Democrat and political liberal?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

AstroGeek
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,582

11 Mar 2011, 7:13 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Liberal Muslims have more in common with Republicans?
Why is it then that practically every liberal and moderate Muslim I've ever seen interviewed is a Democrat and political liberal?

Not surprising. Considering the Republicans hate just about all non-Christians (probably the real reason they hate Islam, after 9/11).

techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,230
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

11 Mar 2011, 9:13 pm

Tequila wrote:

ryan93 wrote:

I don't see a huge problem with mosques being built.

The Swiss voted 'yes' to banning the erection of minarets in a referendum (the phallic shaped structure on my photo above) as they see them as being triumphalist.

I think the smartest thing we could do is insist on fountains on top of these towers, just to make it abundantly clear.

_________________
“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

11 Mar 2011, 10:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Why is it then that practically every liberal and moderate Muslim I've ever seen interviewed is a Democrat and political liberal?

When you say 'liberal' do you really mean social democratic?

And what about people like Naser Khader in Denmark? He's a right-wing, conservative, classical liberal, integrationist secular Muslim.

techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,230
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

11 Mar 2011, 10:39 pm

Tequila wrote:

When you say 'liberal' do you really mean social democratic?

And what about people like Naser Khader in Denmark? He's a right-wing, conservative, classical liberal, integrationist secular Muslim.

Your guy sounds a bit like our Zuhdi Jasser:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af9xM21aniA[/youtube]

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,846
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

11 Mar 2011, 11:11 pm

Tequila wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Why is it then that practically every liberal and moderate Muslim I've ever seen interviewed is a Democrat and political liberal?

When you say 'liberal' do you really mean social democratic?

And what about people like Naser Khader in Denmark? He's a right-wing, conservative, classical liberal, integrationist secular Muslim.

I'm talking about the United States.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

15 Mar 2011, 7:37 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Tequila wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Why is it then that practically every liberal and moderate Muslim I've ever seen interviewed is a Democrat and political liberal?

When you say 'liberal' do you really mean social democratic?

And what about people like Naser Khader in Denmark? He's a right-wing, conservative, classical liberal, integrationist secular Muslim.

I'm talking about the United States.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

The further left, statist liberals in the U.S. corresponds -roughly- with social democrats in Europe. What we consider far left in the U.S. is really middle of the road in Europe. Different countries, different political scales. Europeans have much less of a problem with government intervention in the minute aspects of daily life than do people in the United States. Even though we have a welfare state (mostly to benefit corporations) Americans still have a much more individualistic political ideology than do Europeans.

ruveyn

Page 3 of 4 [ 50 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Jump to:

Islam emerges as key issue for GOP (2011) Post Reply New Topic

Islam emerges as key issue for GOP (2011)