While you consider what policies are good for business...

Page 1 of 1 [ 10 posts ] 

visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

04 Oct 2011, 2:59 pm

Consider what Forbes has to say on the subject of which countries are the best for business

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenha ... -business/

I will grant you that Forbes is not part of the News International group, so it might have improper, liberal leanings, so, also worthy of note: http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

For the second year, Canada outscores the United States in the Heritage Foundation's Economic Freedom index. This year the United States scores over Canada in only two factors: labour freedom and government spending. (You also tie us in investment freedom). In the other seven categories, Canada outperforms the United States. Our most dramatic lead is in freedom from corruption.

So perhaps, just perhaps, there are no panacaeas for your economic malaise. Perhaps the environment for growth in business is not to be achieved by simple, broad measures.


_________________
--James


MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland

05 Oct 2011, 3:12 am

Freedom from corruption is unique to the US and Canada(considering how big and yet how clean we've been able to remain as compared to most states/nations), matter of fact, in Europe, to not be corrupt is often termed "being American" considering how rampant it is abroad. Canada in that regard can be a socialist model for Europe to follow.

We have 50 states, which means 50 chances to try and experiment with different ways of doing things, and I insist we import the Canadian model to one of them, preferably California which needs it the most! your economy is not much bigger then texas and half of that of California so some Canadian approaches are importable, perhaps not to the whole nation but to a good chunk of them. And the nation as a whole can take a few pointers as well.

We could improve our labor situation in the US(and thus lower our labor score) slightly but public, teacher unions and the UAW and the left have largely given it a black eye. Plus it's brought a horde of investment from abroad, most recently speculation that Toyota will build the Korean-market Camry (normally manufactured in Japan) in the United States that will be built in Kentucky with its relaxed labor laws and favorable exchange rates against the Yen. More company's are seeing that as a benefit(our relaxed labor laws) and Mercedes, BMW, VW, Ikea, Nissan, Toyota, and a good number of companies are flocking to the now more "export-friendly" US. I would love it if corporations would try to minimize corporate pay somewhat by having the CEO payed no more then 5 to 10 times the lowest payed worker(in the case of Costco, it's like 3), but that requires the cultural adoption of that psyche, and any governmental pressure to do so will have an unfavorable reaction.

I am probably the only conservative who favors tax hikes, but almost all don't, and the democrats certainly don't want to raise it on the bottom 95%. I support investments in tech but the left and the right always do it for some moral good like defense or minimizing reliance on carbon emissions.

The American voter has been so babied by a bill of goods. And disconnected from the costs of their governments decisions. Democrats and Republicans not willing to compromise and constantly terming whatever their trying to peddle as mainstream is unhealthy.

Would you consider Obama's recent Job Bill a simple broad measure?


_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.


Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

05 Oct 2011, 10:22 am

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Freedom from corruption is unique to the US and Canada(considering how big and yet how clean we've been able to remain as compared to most states/nations), matter of fact, in Europe, to not be corrupt is often termed "being American" considering how rampant it is abroad. Canada in that regard can be a socialist model for Europe to follow.

We have 50 states, which means 50 chances to try and experiment with different ways of doing things, and I insist we import the Canadian model to one of them, preferably California which needs it the most! your economy is not much bigger then texas and half of that of California so some Canadian approaches are importable, perhaps not to the whole nation but to a good chunk of them. And the nation as a whole can take a few pointers as well.

We could improve our labor situation in the US(and thus lower our labor score) slightly but public, teacher unions and the UAW and the left have largely given it a black eye. Plus it's brought a horde of investment from abroad, most recently speculation that Toyota will build the Korean-market Camry (normally manufactured in Japan) in the United States that will be built in Kentucky with its relaxed labor laws and favorable exchange rates against the Yen. More company's are seeing that as a benefit(our relaxed labor laws) and Mercedes, BMW, VW, Ikea, Nissan, Toyota, and a good number of companies are flocking to the now more "export-friendly" US. I would love it if corporations would try to minimize corporate pay somewhat by having the CEO payed no more then 5 to 10 times the lowest payed worker(in the case of Costco, it's like 3), but that requires the cultural adoption of that psyche, and any governmental pressure to do so will have an unfavorable reaction.

I am probably the only conservative who favors tax hikes, but almost all don't, and the democrats certainly don't want to raise it on the bottom 95%. I support investments in tech but the left and the right always do it for some moral good like defense or minimizing reliance on carbon emissions.

The American voter has been so babied by a bill of goods. And disconnected from the costs of their governments decisions. Democrats and Republicans not willing to compromise and constantly terming whatever their trying to peddle as mainstream is unhealthy.

Would you consider Obama's recent Job Bill a simple broad measure?



BS!! !! !

you have no idea what you are talking about and are expressing what you wish to be true.

a look at law and practice around campaign contributions alone in the us is enough, dunno about canada that might actually be true.


_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.


MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland

05 Oct 2011, 5:22 pm

Oodain wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Freedom from corruption is unique to the US and Canada(considering how big and yet how clean we've been able to remain as compared to most states/nations), matter of fact, in Europe, to not be corrupt is often termed "being American" considering how rampant it is abroad. Canada in that regard can be a socialist model for Europe to follow.

We have 50 states, which means 50 chances to try and experiment with different ways of doing things, and I insist we import the Canadian model to one of them, preferably California which needs it the most! your economy is not much bigger then texas and half of that of California so some Canadian approaches are importable, perhaps not to the whole nation but to a good chunk of them. And the nation as a whole can take a few pointers as well.

We could improve our labor situation in the US(and thus lower our labor score) slightly but public, teacher unions and the UAW and the left have largely given it a black eye. Plus it's brought a horde of investment from abroad, most recently speculation that Toyota will build the Korean-market Camry (normally manufactured in Japan) in the United States that will be built in Kentucky with its relaxed labor laws and favorable exchange rates against the Yen. More company's are seeing that as a benefit(our relaxed labor laws) and Mercedes, BMW, VW, Ikea, Nissan, Toyota, and a good number of companies are flocking to the now more "export-friendly" US. I would love it if corporations would try to minimize corporate pay somewhat by having the CEO payed no more then 5 to 10 times the lowest payed worker(in the case of Costco, it's like 3), but that requires the cultural adoption of that psyche, and any governmental pressure to do so will have an unfavorable reaction.

I am probably the only conservative who favors tax hikes, but almost all don't, and the democrats certainly don't want to raise it on the bottom 95%. I support investments in tech but the left and the right always do it for some moral good like defense or minimizing reliance on carbon emissions.

The American voter has been so babied by a bill of goods. And disconnected from the costs of their governments decisions. Democrats and Republicans not willing to compromise and constantly terming whatever their trying to peddle as mainstream is unhealthy.

Would you consider Obama's recent Job Bill a simple broad measure?



BS!! !! !

you have no idea what you are talking about and are expressing what you wish to be true.

a look at law and practice around campaign contributions alone in the us is enough, dunno about canada that might actually be true.


okay, it may be BS but back up what you say

i watched a frontline documentary on how our DOJ does a much better job of preventing corruption then Germany, France, or the UK or any first-world capitalist socialist country (save for Canada). Look at that list and you'll see just about every european nation is knee deep in corruption and that is not a problem considering the normalcy of corruption in every nation on earth.

It is a problem for everyone but more so a problem for a large state that contracts a lot of private services. This problem is more fully lived out in anything-goes states that practice state capitalism wherein corporations exist to power the ruling regime, but the Europeans have higher standards of ethics despite the age old problem of bribery. The US is not spared of this human norm, but we and the Canadians do it better, no??????????????????????? Feel free to disagree, but you cannot deny that the EU has rampant bribery corruption and that Canada with its issues has a far less corrupted system... that leaves us with the US. It is a good documentary and you can watch it online below or on netflix.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/blackmoney/

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stori ... rview.html


_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.


DC
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,477

05 Oct 2011, 5:32 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Oodain wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Freedom from corruption is unique to the US and Canada(considering how big and yet how clean we've been able to remain as compared to most states/nations), matter of fact, in Europe, to not be corrupt is often termed "being American" considering how rampant it is abroad. Canada in that regard can be a socialist model for Europe to follow.



BS!! !! !

you have no idea what you are talking about and are expressing what you wish to be true.

a look at law and practice around campaign contributions alone in the us is enough, dunno about canada that might actually be true.


okay, it may be BS but back up what you say

i watched a frontline documentary on how our DOJ does a much better job of preventing corruption then Germany, France, or the UK or any first-world capitalist socialist country (save for Canada). Look at that list and you'll see just about every european nation is knee deep in corruption and that is not a problem considering the normalcy of corruption in every nation on earth.

It is a problem for everyone but more so a problem for a large state that contracts a lot of private services. This problem is more fully lived out in anything-goes states that practice state capitalism wherein corporations exist to power the ruling regime, but the Europeans have higher standards of ethics despite the age old problem of bribery. The US is not spared of this human norm, but we and the Canadians do it better, no???????????????????????


:roll:

Sorry Market but I've lived in Europe my entire life and I have never heard of being free from corruption described as 'being American'. This is a total fantasy to make Americans feel No. 1 as usual.

If you actually ask a European about corruption and the USA they will probably raise issues like the revolving door, corporate lobbying, religious agenda, the IMF etc etc.

Far from seeing you as being free from corruption, we see you as having industrialised it and put it right at the heart of government.



Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

05 Oct 2011, 5:38 pm

World corruption barometer

by the transparancy international, used by forbes and many other news outlets, largely due to the most extensive world reaching report published in full at the link i gave you.

you basically linked to a primetime show and expect them to be 100% accurate, while it is true that there are european countries that are bad corruption wise most countries you mentioned actually have a lower rate of coruption.

now to a rant about how the countries themselves might allow corruption but most of the money being moved are done by large corporations as "investments", many are international and as such hit many countries at once.
siemens did have large troubles with corruption, i did subcontracting for them at the time, the administration of that branch was later fired and i imagine sued to oblivion by the german buraeucrats from hell.


_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.


Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

05 Oct 2011, 5:42 pm

China doesnt have to worry about those things :lol:



MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland

05 Oct 2011, 5:50 pm

DC wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Oodain wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Freedom from corruption is unique to the US and Canada(considering how big and yet how clean we've been able to remain as compared to most states/nations), matter of fact, in Europe, to not be corrupt is often termed "being American" considering how rampant it is abroad. Canada in that regard can be a socialist model for Europe to follow.



BS!! !! !

you have no idea what you are talking about and are expressing what you wish to be true.

a look at law and practice around campaign contributions alone in the us is enough, dunno about canada that might actually be true.


okay, it may be BS but back up what you say

i watched a frontline documentary on how our DOJ does a much better job of preventing corruption then Germany, France, or the UK or any first-world capitalist socialist country (save for Canada). Look at that list and you'll see just about every european nation is knee deep in corruption and that is not a problem considering the normalcy of corruption in every nation on earth.

It is a problem for everyone but more so a problem for a large state that contracts a lot of private services. This problem is more fully lived out in anything-goes states that practice state capitalism wherein corporations exist to power the ruling regime, but the Europeans have higher standards of ethics despite the age old problem of bribery. The US is not spared of this human norm, but we and the Canadians do it better, no???????????????????????


:roll:

Sorry Market but I've lived in Europe my entire life and I have never heard of being free from corruption described as 'being American'. This is a total fantasy to make Americans feel No. 1 as usual.

If you actually ask a European about corruption and the USA they will probably raise issues like the revolving door, corporate lobbying, religious agenda, the IMF etc etc.

Far from seeing you as being free from corruption, we see you as having industrialised it and put it right at the heart of government.


it helps to watch the documentary to see the context I'm speaking in, perhaps it is also my fault for not fully fleshing out the context to understand what Im saying. The links are posted.


_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.


MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland

05 Oct 2011, 6:07 pm

Oodain wrote:
World corruption barometer

by the transparancy international, used by forbes and many other news outlets, largely due to the most extensive world reaching report published in full at the link i gave you.

you basically linked to a primetime show and expect them to be 100% accurate, while it is true that there are european countries that are bad corruption wise most countries you mentioned actually have a lower rate of coruption.

now to a rant about how the countries themselves might allow corruption but most of the money being moved are done by large corporations as "investments", many are international and as such hit many countries at once.
siemens did have large troubles with corruption, i did subcontracting for them at the time, the administration of that branch was later fired and i imagine sued to oblivion by the german buraeucrats from hell.


Ive read on Siemens and BAE is the focus of the documentary I posted

I don't expect the documentary to be 100% accurate. If it is untrue, it is untrue, but you can't just excuse it because you have a romantic view of Europe. Just as we both have to acknowledge the shortcomings of America, we both have to acknowledge the shortcomings of Europe. Why don't you take issue with Canada's freedom from corruption score? Western EU probably has the population of the US, can such a creature be so moral and corruption free with all its mechanisms?????? Western EU is a fair comparison and combined, they don't rival the US in our freedom from corruption, our court system and our regulations do a pretty good job of keeping this economic behemoth moving.

A popular American equivalent to the French, the UK, and the dutch may be "Chicago Way" politics, and a real life example may be the LA city council.

And yes, the state plays a hand in the crime by politically or financially supporting these corporations to allow them to do their dirty bidding. It is one thing if a corporation does something illegal or evil, it is another if they and their actions are state-backed.


_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.


Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

05 Oct 2011, 6:26 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Oodain wrote:
World corruption barometer

by the transparancy international, used by forbes and many other news outlets, largely due to the most extensive world reaching report published in full at the link i gave you.

you basically linked to a primetime show and expect them to be 100% accurate, while it is true that there are european countries that are bad corruption wise most countries you mentioned actually have a lower rate of coruption.

now to a rant about how the countries themselves might allow corruption but most of the money being moved are done by large corporations as "investments", many are international and as such hit many countries at once.
siemens did have large troubles with corruption, i did subcontracting for them at the time, the administration of that branch was later fired and i imagine sued to oblivion by the german buraeucrats from hell.


Ive read on Siemens and BAE is the focus of the documentary I posted

I don't expect the documentary to be 100% accurate. If it is untrue, it is untrue, but you can't just excuse it because you have a romantic view of Europe. Just as we both have to acknowledge the shortcomings of America, we both have to acknowledge the shortcomings of Europe. Why don't you take issue with Canada's freedom from corruption score? Western EU probably has the population of the US, can such a creature be so moral and corruption free with all its mechanisms?????? Western EU is a fair comparison and combined, they don't rival the US in our freedom from corruption, our court system and our regulations do a pretty good job of keeping this economic behemoth moving.

A popular American equivalent to the French, the UK, and the dutch may be "Chicago Way" politics, and a real life example may be the LA city council.

And yes, the state plays a hand in the crime by politically or financially supporting these corporations to allow them to do their dirty bidding. It is one thing if a corporation does something illegal or evil, it is another if they and their actions are state-backed.


of course we have to acknowledge that there is things to improve everywhere.
i never said anything else, to me it has nothing to do with who is the least corrupt, but if people believe there is nothing to change then nothing will change.
which is the reason i think we have to think less of the countries and more of the reasons and things to prevent it.

i for one would love to see campaign contributions be abolished completely, make a set amount that is paid through a tax as a part of the democratic process.
i would also love to see more transparancy in general, if people aent afraid of their behavior they shouldnt be afraid of showing it off, that however would gurt profit as goods that overcharge would be out in the open for it.


_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.