Mandatory abortions in case of rape

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16 Mar 2011, 10:45 pm

Hey, so we still do not have abortion in over 50% of the threads in PPR's page , so how about a new thread about it?.

I'd like to mention, today I heard about a serial rapist that got three women pregnant. Because of the horribly religious people in here, the abortion idea was not even considered. This means that we will have three little monsters as off-spring from this guy, so he basically won in his fight to spread his genes. I find it disgusting.

Why allow rapists to breed? Should society really become responsible for kids that were the cause of a rapist? How about this idea that is noticeably not pro-choice anymore but pro-abortion. Let us make abortion mandatory. Optimally making victims take a "day after" pill after they file the report, or else, if the report was late, making them go through the procedure. The result? Less rapists reproducing. How about that?

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Jacoby
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16 Mar 2011, 11:02 pm

Do you support the death penalty for rapists?

LKL
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16 Mar 2011, 11:21 pm

I wouldn't support making it mandatory, simply because women should have control over their own bodies and forcing them to undergo that, when they don't want it, shortly after they've been forcibly violated by a rapist, would mentally scar most women for life and probably cause a lot of suicides. I would support mandatory provision of free morning-after pills or ru-486 for any woman that wanted it, in part because of the psychological damage of rape and subsequent pregnancy to the woman and in part because of the possibility (never proven afaik) that there is any genetic component to rape.

91
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16 Mar 2011, 11:22 pm

One of my best friends is the result of exactly that situation and she is a fantastic human being. Though she has lived in a small town and with the stigma of it her entire life she is a highly successful woman. Vex, your idea is not very good.

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16 Mar 2011, 11:28 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

Hey, so we still do not have abortion in over 50% of the threads in PPR's page , so how about a new thread about it?.

no more, please!!

LKL wrote:

I would support mandatory provision of free morning-after pills or ru-486 for any woman that wanted it

That is a good early solution. I think claiming emergency contraception is like an abortion would really be stretching it for the anti-abortion crowd

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aghogday
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16 Mar 2011, 11:33 pm

Rape is one of the best arguments for a womans choice to have an abortion; some parents pressure their children into a decision for abortion, that results in a great deal of psychological damage to the young woman. Enforcing abortion when a pregnancy is wanted can be as psychologically damaging as preventing an abortion from an act of rape.

ryan93
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17 Mar 2011, 12:02 am

Vexcalibur wrote:

Your argument presupposes that there is rape has its roots in specific genes, and is not just an unfortunate exaptation of an otherwise important gene triggered by a unlikely series of environmental events. It also presupposes that these genes have strong correlation to rape or that there is so much rape that weak correlations add up significantly.

I understand where you are coming from, but constructing an argument from "first principles" without accounting for things like the short time spans we observe, weakness of correlation and the possible absence of "rape genes" and using it as a basis for harsh social policy is pretty illogical.

Quote:

That is a good early solution. I think claiming emergency contraception is like an abortion would really be stretching it for the anti-abortion crowd.

Not really. My friend is anti-abortion, and offers quite a consistent position in claiming the intentional destruction of a potential human being is immoral, on day one or in the third trimester.

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LKL
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17 Mar 2011, 12:28 am

[quote="ryan93]Your argument presupposes that there is rape has its roots in specific genes, and is not just an unfortunate exaptation of an otherwise important gene triggered by a unlikely series of environmental events. It also presupposes that these genes have strong correlation to rape or that there is so much rape that weak correlations add up significantly.[/quote]
I don't think that's the case. The presupposition only has to be that it's possible that there's a genetic root for rape, combined with the fact that most women would rather cut out their uterus with a dull knife than endure a pregnancy caused by a rapist. The two add up to a significant reason to provide free emergency contraception to rape victims.

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17 Mar 2011, 12:37 am

I was about to respond, but I see there is no need to in light of this:

LKL wrote:

QFT.

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17 Mar 2011, 12:43 am

LKL wrote:

I don't think that's the case. The presupposition only has to be that it's possible that there's a genetic root for rape, combined with the fact that most women would rather cut out their uterus with a dull knife than endure a pregnancy caused by a rapist. The two add up to a significant reason to provide free emergency contraception to rape victims.[/quote]

There is no specific scientifically identified genetic root for rape so it couldn't be used as a reason to fund free emergency contraception to rape victims. I don't think the government would fund it because it is technically a means of abortion, but maybe a non-profit organization against violence against women could provide funding for something like this, given a woman's choice to accept the day after pill because of rape. Do you know if private insurance companies cover the day after pill?

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17 Mar 2011, 2:34 am

Mandatory abortion is about as ethically justifiable as mandatory pregnancy and childbirth.

That is to say, IT ISN'T.

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17 Mar 2011, 3:21 am

aghogday wrote:

I don't think the government would fund it because it is technically a means of abortion...

This is factually not accurate. You might be confusing 'Plan B,' aka 'the morning after pill,' aka 'emergency contraception,' with ru-486, aka 'the abortion pill.' The Catholic church notwithstanding, Plan B is contraception, not an abortion. It does not work if a pregnancy already exists.

As for private insurance, I don't know for sure (I thankfully rarely have to deal with billing, and never with insurance), but I imagine that it's different from company to company.

ryan93
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17 Mar 2011, 9:02 am

Quote:

There is no specific scientifically identified genetic root for rape so it couldn't be used as a reason to fund free emergency contraception to rape victims. I don't think the government would fund it because it is technically a means of abortion, but maybe a non-profit organization against violence against women could provide funding for something like this, given a woman's choice to accept the day after pill because of rape. Do you know if private insurance companies cover the day after pill?

I'm not against providing the morning after pill; I'm against forcing people to take it on the the assumption that some strong Darwinian mechanism is going to lead to a world populated by rapists.

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Vexcalibur
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17 Mar 2011, 10:32 am

Jacoby wrote:

Do you support the death penalty for rapists?

Why? Just keep the guy in jail so he does not rape anyone. If you want to go over the top with preventive measures, sterilize him, but I see no need for that.

Quote:

I would support mandatory provision of free morning-after pills or ru-486 for any woman that wanted it, in part because of the psychological damage of rape and subsequent pregnancy to the woman and in part because of the possibility (never proven afaik) that there is any genetic component to rape.

Yeah sounds like a good compromise. I don't think why isn't it already like that. Oh, I know, 'pro-life' people.

I don't think there is a genetic component of rape, but I do think there is some sort of impulse to get heritage inside the mind of a rapist, so in a way letting him get away with breeding makes him sort of win. I think the last thing we need is more people in this world and if we are going to increase the population let it not be through forced measures like rape...

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Last edited by Vexcalibur on 17 Mar 2011, 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

skafather84
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17 Mar 2011, 10:37 am

Jacoby wrote:

Do you support the death penalty for rapists?

No but abortion isn't killing anyone.

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17 Mar 2011, 10:45 am

Vexcalibur wrote:

Pro-choice is one thing, but forcing the person to get an abortion is another.

Whether the woman was impregnated voluntarily or involuntarily the fetus is still a human life.

It's unfortunate for the woman, and the criminal needs to be held accountable, but it's not fair to take an innocent life for expedience.

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