10 reasons to say no to western intervention in Libya
Oodain
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20 Mar 2011, 11:47 am
By the way, this is what Sarkozy has done to Libya.
Naturally, Mr X will be grateful for his new power over Syria and if his benefactors tell him to implement structural adjustment policies, carry out fire sales of Syrian assets for pennies on the dollars to well-placed corporations run from the benefactor countries, and agree to host military bases there, he will do so willingly. In short, Syria would be conquered, as Libya will be if the imperialists have their way there. This is a violation of international law in the most fundamental way and opens the way to wars of conquest everywhere and the reestablishment of colonialism.
just because it is subjective doesnt mean that it would be easy for the west to do anything, you still have to deal with people with free will (opressed or not)
the west did not consult the iraqi people about this and it went to hell, lets see what happens when we help them after they ask for the help.
any power or authority only has the leverage of the people standing behind it, there might be rules saying differently but if an opinion is strong enough most authorities would have to give in no matter what, or start the slippery slope of losing public support, if the loss of public support is great enough you will have situations like in the middle east right now.
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//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
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20 Mar 2011, 12:00 pm
Civil wars and revolutions are a breaking of the social contract. People have walked away from the earlier order. So now other nations have a choice of who to assist as they had in the revolutionary war, the civil war and countless wars in Latin America and Africa.
That's the nature of civil war. This is nothing new.
Oodain
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20 Mar 2011, 12:12 pm
That's the nature of civil war. This is nothing new.
and the west chose to assist the libyan people instead of the "sovereign government"
case closed.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
20 Mar 2011, 1:00 pm
US-France planned this invation very well this time, unlike Iraq. The legal aspect is very solid. Before the attacks, Quaddafi's government has been declared unrecognized by just about most nations but those in the extreme, wacky left (Cuba, Venezuela and the like). That includes the Arab league. In other words, for all what's worth of it, there is no legal government in Libya, so sovereignty becomes a void point.
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20 Mar 2011, 2:50 pm
US-France planned this invation very well this time, unlike Iraq. The legal aspect is very solid. Before the attacks, Quaddafi's government has been declared unrecognized by just about most nations but those in the extreme, wacky left (Cuba, Venezuela and the like). That includes the Arab league. In other words, for all what's worth of it, there is no legal government in Libya, so sovereignty becomes a void point.
Obama had to be dragged into this after the UK and France took the lead. I'm actually disgusted with the President of the US.
Oodain
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20 Mar 2011, 3:43 pm
Really? Tell us something we don't already know.
Did you know Obama tried to sell Qhadaffi some of our military hardware and congress had to block him so the deal wouldn't go through?
i would like to see the sources of that
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
20 Mar 2011, 4:10 pm
Really? Tell us something we don't already know.
Did you know Obama tried to sell Qhadaffi some of our military hardware and congress had to block him so the deal wouldn't go through?
i would like to see the sources of that
WASHINGTON – The U.S. government quietly green-lighted a $77 million deal to provide at least 50 refurbished armored troop carriers to Moammar Gadhafi's army, approving a license that signaled growing American business contacts with his regime in the months before Libya imploded in civil war.
Congress balked, concerned the deal would improve Libyan army mobility and questioning the Obama administration's support for the agreement, which would have benefited British defense company BAE. The congressional concerns effectively stalled the deal until the turmoil in the country scuttled the sale.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/07/li ... -approval/
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/03/a ... en-030711/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/ ... 9930.shtml
20 Mar 2011, 4:15 pm
What makes you think that Qaddafi's former Justice Minister represents the Libyan people? What tribes are backing him? The way the rebel territory has been run has been a shambles, and their media sounds as totalitarian as anything coming from the government. There's no proof that the rebels represent the people at all. Some people go out on the street and don't like what's been going on, this doesn't mean that they want these rebels running things. It's no surprise that as soon as it became more clear what these rebels are all about that their army has started to collapse and enthusiasm for change had waned. Angry Arab was so right when he said that the leader of the rebels is "the worst" and said that he would demoralise Qaddafi's opponents, saying "put him off the screen!" This is someone who wanted to see Qaddafi gone who said this. I'm sure that many when they saw the reality of these rebels lost their enthusiasm.
Only the French have "un-recognised" Qaddafi, by the way. All the other governments still recognise Qaddafi's system as being the sovereign authority of Libya.
Again, it is not legal to recognise a puppet to rule a state and then have the puppet "invite" you in to invade and conquer the place and then build military bases by the puppet's invitation. After all, why not have the French Libyan puppets proclaim their desire to become a Departement Outremer and an integral part of France? France can try to build a new empire this way.
Last edited by xenon13 on 20 Mar 2011, 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oodain
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Joined: 30 Jan 2011
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20 Mar 2011, 4:18 pm
Really? Tell us something we don't already know.
Did you know Obama tried to sell Qhadaffi some of our military hardware and congress had to block him so the deal wouldn't go through?
i would like to see the sources of that
WASHINGTON – The U.S. government quietly green-lighted a $77 million deal to provide at least 50 refurbished armored troop carriers to Moammar Gadhafi's army, approving a license that signaled growing American business contacts with his regime in the months before Libya imploded in civil war.
Congress balked, concerned the deal would improve Libyan army mobility and questioning the Obama administration's support for the agreement, which would have benefited British defense company BAE. The congressional concerns effectively stalled the deal until the turmoil in the country scuttled the sale.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/07/li ... -approval/
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/03/a ... en-030711/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/ ... 9930.shtml
thank you, i honestly wouldnt have called that.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
Oodain
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Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
20 Mar 2011, 4:20 pm
Only the French have "un-recognised" Qaddafi, by the way. All the other governments still recognise Qaddafi's system as being the sovereign authority of Libya.
all true, but we have proof of one thing, gadaffi will kill unarmed civilians if he feels like it.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
20 Mar 2011, 4:26 pm
Qaddafi killed unarmed civilians? Who hasn't when at war and this has been a civil war from the beginning. This claim by the way that he sent warplanes to attack crowds of protesters has never been proven. The Qatari government channel just kept repeating these claims without any substance to back it up. They've been proven to be unreliable in reporting from Libya. For one thing, they were making up all sorts of claims of chaos in Tripoli which turned out to be false.
By the way, it's interesting to see coordinated attacks on government buildings and state-owned companies by so-called Syrian protesters. Makes one wonder if this is another undercover military action by people wanting to take over Syria for the requisite fire sales and neoliberal economics and of course de facto alliance with Israel.
20 Mar 2011, 4:29 pm
Really? Tell us something we don't already know.
Did you know Obama tried to sell Qhadaffi some of our military hardware and congress had to block him so the deal wouldn't go through?
i would like to see the sources of that
WASHINGTON – The U.S. government quietly green-lighted a $77 million deal to provide at least 50 refurbished armored troop carriers to Moammar Gadhafi's army, approving a license that signaled growing American business contacts with his regime in the months before Libya imploded in civil war.
Congress balked, concerned the deal would improve Libyan army mobility and questioning the Obama administration's support for the agreement, which would have benefited British defense company BAE. The congressional concerns effectively stalled the deal until the turmoil in the country scuttled the sale.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/07/li ... -approval/
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/03/a ... en-030711/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/ ... 9930.shtml
thank you, i honestly wouldnt have called that.
There is more:
Obama's pastor before he had to throw him under the Bus had been to Libya.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=267361
21 Mar 2011, 5:49 am
By the way, it's interesting to see coordinated attacks on government buildings and state-owned companies by so-called Syrian protesters. Makes one wonder if this is another undercover military action by people wanting to take over Syria for the requisite fire sales and neoliberal economics and of course de facto alliance with Israel.
Yes my hearts bleeds for the Syrian regime. The same regime thats spent the last half a century shielding the world's last remaining Nazi war criminal- Alois Brunner. You have a dull witted support for any regime you see as anti-western. Socialist's should support human rights and elections in all countries.
