I no longer believe

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Alrighty, for those interested after seeing some of my posts here in this section, here's my post that explains why I'm no longer a believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and why I'm now a secularist (specifically a secular theist/deist). My purpose from this post is to not only explain why I no longer believe but to also show why it's not reasonable to believe in Jesus Christ (or any religion or cult for that matter).

But first let me give a very brief explanation of how I became a Christian at one stage. Basically, I was lost and confused, lacking emotional support and encouragement from anyone around me. Then along came a Christian family (my neighbors) preaching to me the Gospel and giving me CDs and DVDs of Christian stuff for me to watch and listen to. Being a curious guy who was looking for God and religion at the time, I asked them questions about God, the Bible, and Christianity in general ... and they did their best to answer my questions. They had me pray with them. They invited me to their house. They convinced me that they were a loving and peaceful family. They considered me a brother. They gave me a big Bible as a gift. They introduced me to their pastor and to the local church. My family got along with them well. And then I watched "The Way of the Master" series with them. That was when I eventually started to believe in the Gospel. And, thus, I submitted myself to Jesus Christ and put my faith in Him.

The Gospel is one of the most powerful messages that man has ever preached to his fellow man. Whether it's true or not, it is psychologically so powerful that, when described with the right words, can make many intelligent people who are looking for any hope in heaven to take such a message seriously and possibly believe.

What is the Gospel according to Christianity? First of all, the word "Gospel" is an English adaptation of the Greek word for "Good News". It is called the Gospel (Good News) because it is about the supposedly good news that, no matter how badly you've sinned against God and how much you've angered God with your sins and how much you deserve hell, God supposedly loved you so much that He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to this world around 2000 years ago to die on the cross for you and pay the full price for your sins. That way, by putting your faith in the one who died for you, you become saved by grace through faith and become a born again Christian living a life of holiness for God through Jesus by the Holy Spirit that supposedly resides in you once you believe.

When understood properly, it can be so convincing that almost any vulnerable person (regardless of his intelligence) would want to believe such a pleasant message that Jesus Christ died for him and, thus, become a Christian. It gives you a feeling of assurance and security by thinking that God has it all handled for you and that all you have to do is believe that God can save you completely through Jesus Christ alone. You no longer have to try to vainly do good in order to please God and make God see how much you deserve heaven. Christianity, with its Gospel, is unlike any religion out there. And so it's quite unique compared to other religions ... which is why I was so attracted to Christianity and to the main man of Christianity - Jesus Christ. The day I was converted to Christ was one of the best days of my life. It was a day of joy for me. It was like heaven. And the feeling I had at the time was so wonderful and so sincere that it lasted for a while (around a couple of months). Back then, I sincerely believed that Jesus Christ was the only one worthy to be my lord and savior.

And it's not just about the good feeling of having an omnipotent being to completely rely on for my salvation, the whole local church was quite nice and pleasant to me in the beginning, and they made me feel so special (something that I had never experienced before), that it seemed like a big confirmation to me that Christianity can't be but true and that Jesus Christ can't be but God.

It was a great feeling.

Unfortunately, it didn't last forever. In two months, I was already intellectually back to how I was before I professed Jesus Christ. The feeling that one also gets from being high on drugs was already gone. I was already starting to have doubts about my faith. However, I was already deeply rooted within Christainity that, despite everything, I stayed a Christian for quite a few years (around 10 years), preaching the Gospel to the "lost" and passionately defending the faith. Like a typical Christian with autism, I was so into the Bible (supposedly God's written word) that only a select few around me knew more about the Bible than I did. I was into refuting claims of alleged contradictions in the Bible. I was into explaining the message of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone to all the cultists I argued with over the Internet. And I had a lot of fun arguing with all the "angry" atheists and seculars out there, arrogantly thinking that they were so lost in their godlessness that they could never convince me of any of their views. I argued with them about evolution, about quantum physics, and about the age of the universe, relying on pure creationist propaganda to support my views. I even typed Christian articles and submitted them to a certain Christian blog site. It was all so much fun to me.

But despite it all, I never truly believed (aside from the first two months as a professing Christian). I had no problem being intellectually dishonest. I had no problem spreading disinformation about evolution and about secular scientific discoveries in general. I had no problem purely relying on the Bible for all my answers to every question and allegation thrown at me for me to answer and respond to. It was all a game to me. And I'm sure that, for many Christian apologists out there, it is also all a game to them. They just don't want to admit it to anyone ... including themselves.

And let's not forget about the burden of having to go to church every Sunday ... or else they start to look down on you and think you're walking according to the flesh instead of the Spirit. Personally, I HATED going to church. It was a chore. Not because I didn't enjoy listening to the pastor preach. But because it was too social for me to handle every single week. Actually, I never was interested in the company of other Christians much. And anyway, they were starting to act like almost any other group of people I've interacted with. They no longer looked "born again" to me. But that's ok. All I wanted, as a Christian, was to read and study the Bible and do a lot of research on evolution, on cults, on secularism, and so on. I just didn't enjoy the social bit much.

Oh, and prayer? That, too, was a chore. I just didn't know what to say to God back when I was a Christian. All the other Christians had no problem knowing what to say to God within a short amount of time, but me? I struggled a lot with prayer that I only ever prayed out loud once in public ... and let's just say that it was the most embarrassing Christian moment in my life.

What else was a problem for me? Right! As a single Christian, I couldn't help lusting for girls. Jesus failed to help me stop lusting (as he promised), so I had to handle this one myself. I tried this and that, but nothing worked. Which really got me depressed. I wanted to convince myself that I was truly "born again" but my lusts were always giving me doubts about my "born again" nature.

Eventually, I just said to myself: STUFF IT! I started reading articles written by atheists, scientists, and scholars about God, science, philosophy, the Bible, etc. I found that many of them made so much sense to me that I finally had my mind open up after all these times and admit to myself that Christianity is nothing but a lie and a waste of time. After being a secular in the closet for a few months, I am now proud to admit to almost every person I know that I no longer believe. It was in the middle of last year (2010) that I stopped being a Christian.

Now, I will list reasons why I no longer believe (in no particular order):

1. There is no conclusive evidence pointing to Yahweh/Jesus being the true God and Creator. Even if this universe could not but have been created by the Creator, what makes you think that Yahweh/Jesus is that Creator? Is it because the Bible tells you so? Or is there a clear sign out there that Yahweh/Jesus is God? If there is, then where is it? I could never find one conclusive evidence. It has always been by blind faith.

2. There is no conclusive evidence pointing to the Bible being God's written word. Not one. There is no advanced scientific knowledge in the Bible that the Jews could not have had access to in any normal way. There is no advanced psychological knowledge in the Bible. There is no advanced mathematics. There is nothing to clearly show that the Bible was inspired by a divine source. Nothing. Prophecies? Don't make me laugh. They're either too vague ... or they count on you to do complicated mathematical equations using numbers that you yourself have to make up. And, no, Jesus didn't fulfill the Messianic prophecies perfectly. A lot of stuff had to be made up concerning him in the New Testament. And even then, they couldn't make his character fulfill them all in their writings.

3. Psychology is another reason why I no longer believe. Look at all the psychopaths and the extreme narcissists out there. Psychology tells us that such people lack empathy, compassion for others, and none of them has a clear conscience. Thus, they can never personally change without the assistance of advanced psychological treatments (which have yet to be discovered). So how can God hold them accountable for their deeds if they can't help being the way they are? Sure, within our human societies, we continue to have such people punished if they commit crimes, but that's only so that other people may be protected from them. However, when you think about it, shouldn't God take full responsibility for their actions? After all, they can't help doing the things they do because of who they are by nature. So someone else has to take responsibility for the actions of such disturbed people? Who else should it be other than the omnipotent God himself? Surely, we can't blame a limited human being (who has no power over psychopaths) for such actions! Only God supposedly has the power. So where is he?

4. How can God allow a child to be cut to pieces by a sick man? How can God allow children to die of starvation? How can God allow people to die horrific deaths when disaster strikes? Why the earthquakes? Why the tsunamis? What about the poor animals that end up being slaughtered for our own survival? Why did he make it in a way that we need to eat animal meat in order to function properly and survive? Doesn't God care about any of us? Is this world just a joke to the supposedly loving God? That's another reason why I can't believe that a loving and compassionate God exists. Oh, and free will sounds like an excuse made up by religious theists to explain away the existence of pain and suffering in this world. Yeah, sure, as if humans have the free will to cause earthquakes and tsunamis ...

5. The idea that hell exists is a big indicator that God, who supposedly set it up, cannot be loving and compassionate. Why the hell would such a god create such a nightmarish place for any limited being? Just imagine what it would be like to suffer pain and agony forever and ever. Why not just wish us away from existence if God doesn't like us? If his ego is so big, he can just have us punished temporarily in hell and then wish us away from any form of existence after our terms of divine punishment have been served. But why the need to act like such a sadist? Insecurity? Which brings me to my next point ...

6. Yahweh sounds just like an angry narcissistic human in power! There is nothing divine about his character. When angry, he kills people (including babies and young children and animals). He has narcissistic rages as you can tell from his words in the Bible. He claims to be merciful and forgiving and patient, but his actions often show otherwise. He demands that he be worshiped and even experiences extreme jealousy when other gods are worshiped. Damn! He sounds like a big baby to me! And you call him God?

7. When taken literally, the Bible contradicts current scientific discoveries. If the Bible is from God, then why do the current scientific discoveries contradict what the Bible says about the age of the universe, the age of this planet, the age of mankind, the origins of humans and animals, and so on? What's going on?

And of course, there are far more reasons, like internal contradictions within the Bible (who is Joseph's father?) and other stuff.

And so ... that is why I just cannot believe anymore. It would only make me feel intellectually dishonest by continuing to profess such a blind faith.

Now, I am happier and more comfortable with myself than I ever was before. I no longer feel trapped by the doctrines of hell and sin like many Christians are. I no longer have to wonder whether I should play video games or not, whether this movie is good for me to watch, whetherthis book is ok for me to read and enjoy. I no longer have to go to church. I no longer have to waste time praying. I no longer have to wait for marriage in order to have sex. I no longer have to feel shame for feeling lust for women. I no longer have to be intellectually dishonest.

I am now totally and completely free.

And I hope the same for all Christians who, deep inside, want to get out of the Christian prison that they're in. I would love you to have the same feelings and freedom that I currently have. Because nothing can be better and more relieving than being free from dogma and all that s**t.

That's why I'm posting here.

I can now appreciate the universe the way it actually is. And I accept the fact that this universe will always have mysteries for us to solve no matter how far we go with our scientific discoveries. I no longer have to blindly fill in any gaps using the Christian god.

Cheers.

What got me was learning, in Sunday school, that people born in non-Christian countries were all going to hell for not being Christian. At first I thought I must have misunderstood, and started asking questions... that was when the teacher told me to shut up (in a nice way, of course).

Oh, my goodness! This is an awesome thread! You nailed that one!

I used to go to a Christian church for I think 7 years. In 2006, though, things happened that changed my ways of thinking until I decided that I could no longer be a Christian. I've been an atheist for more than 3 years, and I'm very happy! Here's some pros about not being a Christian:

1. No fearing Hell (Am I good enough to go to Heaven? What if I'm doing something wrong with my life that I'll be sent to Hell for?)

2. No fearing a god who stalks people (like Santa Claus; "He sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake...") If that doesn't make you paranoid....

3. No feeling guilty every time you cuss, yell at someone, etc.

4. Just not having to worry about the religion in general!

5. No getting up early on Sundays to go to church!

Very nicely done. I believe that anyone who is educated enough will throw away religion.
I used to be religious. I was raised a Christian actually. My thoughts went generally along the same lines as yours. Once I started learning about biology and scientific stuff.... religion didn't make any sense. The more I learned the more I let go.
Now I do not go to church anymore. My family still goes. But I sleep in... I haven't told them yet.

How much is educated enough?

I rejected religion early in my schooling. Nothing to do with education. You can hardly call it rejection. We were supposed to go to church, nobody ever came up with a reason or explanation. Made no sense.

Late in my career as professional [and atheist / agnostic - I varied] academic, with enough varied education to satisfy most people, something happened to me. I looked around, NOTHING - no system of concepts - gave any explanation besides theism and specifically Christianity. So, being reasonable and educated, I followed reason and here I am.

Just out of curiosity...

Could you elaborate on this point?

As you once said to me Phiolgos, I think we are on the same wavelength. I also rejected religion in my early 20's and went through an agnostic period; eventually I came to understand that just because the people that told me about God and Jesus didn't have a clue what they were talking about didn't prove they were wrong about everything.

The idea that matter created life makes no sense to me, and there is no dispute with science here because science has yet to develop a theory about the origin of life. It seems to me to be far more plausible that life came first and will endure beyond the functioning of our material bodies.

Thank you for sharing how you look at it all. Suspect that many persons share large aspects or have thought about what you have shared. In my view, too much of non-profit, tax-exempt religions are only fascist businesses (which only worship the God of the Collection Plate): No questions allowed - convert or die. Subject: I no longer believe - In my view, the religious science fiction book (and movies), The Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan, can help perhaps clarify some small aspects of the symbolic/poetic/metaphoric meaning of the Bible. The Pilgrim's Progress takes place as a series of two dreams. Even the movie, The Wizard of Oz, is based on a dream of Dorothy in Kansas. The Bible has just as much a right to exist as other imaginative literature as the Iliad and Odyssey, Harry Potter, Dr. Who, Superman, Batman, Mickey Mouse, the Star Trek series, European and American operas, the Saturday Night Live TV show, the Homer Simpson TV show, and the All In The Family (Archie Bunker) TV show (my view). Bunyan: the Path, The Wizard of Oz: the Yellow Brick Road. Star Trek: to go where no man has gone before (at least for 60 minutes, prior to the next TV program or 6:00 pm TV news gig)(my view).

Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.

(End of my attempted nonsense commentary - private, off the record musings, balderdash)

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Were you also taught that real history began only with the birth of Jesus Christ in Israel, that is, everything prior to Jesus being born (like the pyramids in Egypt, the development of language, the development of writing, the development of agriculture, the creation of the universe, and the religion of Judaism/Moses) did not matter at all? Of course linked with the idea of: No questions allowed, non-profit, tax-exempt fascist religions exist - not democracy, convert or die? Were you taught the emperor of Japan was a God and the Dalai Lama was His Holiness and that Peter of Rome was never married (to a woman - which is what the Bible says)? Were you taught the Republican Party of the USA (aka Texas) is the only saved party of God, that the Democrat Party of the USA is an unsaved, godless party and is going to heck? Were you taught if you voted for Barack Obama as president of the United States, you would have to confess that error to a child abuse/child crime hiding priest from the foreign Vatican, Italy? Were you taught that women priests are evil because they are women (gender discrimination)? Were you taught that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was an Italian Catholic minister and not an American Baptist minister?

At least you reasoned your way out of it. Ive never fallen for it but my gf is a former christian. She led church groups, attended church camps as a leader, etc. At some point she just saw through it and never looked back.

She was never a creationist but she knew many and they still send her emails from time to time detailing their latest misinterpretations of science. Creationists absolutely repulse me. My honest nature finds them to be an abomination.

True, and yet...so simplified. Cotton Candy Christianity. This is exactly why evangelical Christianity is like nails on a chalkboard to this Roman Catholic. (That and Creationism/biblical literalism.) It's not easy and there's no assurance and security - there's a lot more of "fear and trembling" to it.

Christ promised that "in this world you will have trouble". And indeed, we see that of His first followers, Peter and Andrew were crucified; one James was flayed alive and the other thrown off the Temple roof; the other Apostles met similarly nasty ends, except for John who died in exile. Stephen was stoned and Paul executed by the sword; there was the persecution under Nero; there's Paul's horrific list of punishments endured, in 2 Corinithians 11; and Church history goes on that way for 2,000 years. To be Christian is to (be ready to) suffer as Christ did, whatever form that may take.

It was a game for you and it probably is a game for many 'Christians'. But it is and should be the most real and serious thing there is.

Well Philologos, at a very Young age (around 5) I had major problems with religion. "Who created God?" "Why doesn't he fix all these problems?"
But it is the only real explanation of life I learned until I got educated... about science, about evolution. (Sorry I wasn't very clear earlier.) At least the theory of evolution makes sense.

Ach Gott, actual substance and which do I talk at first? How long has it been?

Well, let me start [not to slight anyone] with P. Semaj Nosirrom.

"But it is the only real explanation of life I learned until I got educated.." - you come out of a different background. I got NO zero zilch worldviews or explanations or accounts based in religion - I had to do Bible reading on my own at a later date. No talk of the "scientific" - it just means pursuing knowledge, not writ on stone tablets - either, but all the state of the art books on all aspects or material science you could want. Great stuff covering the importance to evolution of Piltdown Man and such [don't nobody laugh - science is quite right to point out that it works to movde on from its goofs. Some scientists aactually do].

All those explanations - I am a scientist - went in as working concepts until new data expanded or refuted. So I soon dropped the idea that Sumerian was a Ural-Altaic language - data did not support.

Anyhow, let me leave you with a pair of thoughts:

1. A theory that makes sense is just as likely to be adjusted by incoming data as one that does not make sense [and sense is not directly related to truth]. Phlogiston made sense.

2. THe religious are accused of FAILING to consider newly arriving data and to adjust their views in light of new evidence. Let those of us who are scientific [which does imply materialist] NOT so fail.

confusedwoman87:

Glad you are comfy. How do you handle other areas of PC-imposed guilt - carbon footprint, transfats, ethnic profiling?

You should try, though, Christianity - which is low on the things you mention [though some do interrupt the Sundays]. If the church you were working with actually pushed those things, they need to get a greater awareness of Jesus.

But that is completely between the two of you.

Natty Boh:

And here I am, born in Baltimore and claiming descent from Baltimore Germans whose hoe territory is long razed, and I had to look up the Natty Boh reference!

"True, and yet...so simplified. Cotton Candy Christianity. This is exactly why evangelical Christianity is like nails on a chalkboard to this Roman Catholic. (That and Creationism/biblical literalism.) It's not easy and there's no assurance and security - there's a lot more of "fear and trembling" to it. "

Totally true except that for me it is nail filing, not the blackboard thing. But hold the baby - there ARE evangelical types who are not media complected and very sound.

But for the media, a Fulton Sheen with some maturity backing him will trump an Oral Roberts [hey, I do not see the TV ones these days.

No. Learning that God sends people to hell for the 'crime' of having been born in the wrong place made me start to question whether that God should be worshiped, and questioning worship made me question existence. I was an agnostic before I left grade school, and an atheist before I finished junior high, so they never had time to force all of that down my throat. I am deeply grateful to my parents for not making me go to church regardless.