The belief in prayer, but not in God/afterlife

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I'm agnostic, first of all, so I don't fully commit to the concept of God. But I do believe in the power of prayer to a degree. It cannot break the laws of physics, but I believe it has guided me to very real support, and has lead to tremendous benefits. It could all have been a coincidence, but I don't really think so. But it has always come through other people, so I don't know if it's a God answering these prayers. Here's my personal little crackpot idea of what prayer might be. We're all deeply connected, in ways conventional science can't measure (but one day might be able to!) When we meditate and focus on what we want, sometimes the healthiest path opens up before us, and others who would have the same goal gravitate toward us. This sounds like The Secret, but I don't put much stock in it. Anyway, when people point to their prayers being answered as evidence of the existence of God, I don't fully share their views, even if I strongly believe in the power of prayer. So in a nutshell, it's possible there really isn't anything supernatural to look forward to, but our prayers are possibly being answered all the same.

That probably puts you near the "The Secret", law of attraction and intention-manifestation crowd.

May I re-arrange some words and thoughts there in order to expand that just a bit?


Yes.

Yeah I know, but...... I don't feel comfortable with the association with The Secret, since it's about only as reliable as prayer anyway. Plus the author seems so convinced her ideas, that anybody who experiences ANY misfortune must have brought it on themselves and it the secret doesn't work you must be doing it wrong. I respect it only to an extent.

I'd like to emphasize again that prayer probably has its roots in science, and in time (maybe millenia hence) we'll be able to figure out prayer down to how it works on a scientific level, and have technology based on those principals that we can use at will. It's far fetched, but not when you think about how far we've come, why not?

That is where the matter of right worship enters the picture: Shall I worship (place faith in) my own ability to utilize, or shall I place my faith in "the source" and simply learn to be worship rightly. Self-reliance can be good for as far as it goes, but it just does not go far enough.

That's entirely a matter of what you feel comfortable with. The reason I'm agnostic and not athiest is because the belief that there is something benevolent and enlightened beyond this reality is what keeps me sane. It's hard for me to believe, but there are people here who don't have that need at all. To me, in a sense, they are more self sufficient than me. I don't know how people get through this life without faith.

Anyway, enough poetry.It's this: if I didn't have that need, I wouldn't necessarily be an athiest, but I'd sure be indifferent to religion and faith. And as far as worship, if you ask me, what you worship and your faith in prayer can be different matters. I don't worship myself or my ability to pray.

Some people just do that naturally where others of us need "outside help", so to speak, but then all people are still faced with the matter of deciding where to place the credit. At that point, some people refuse to give any credit to whoever or whatever it is that actually made all good things even possible.


Same here.

Wow, focusing your life around a aim makes it more likely to happen? And other people with similar aims gravitate towards you?

/sarcastic skeptic

Yes.

No reason both those things couldn't be explain by natural processes. Besides, if people could really "will" the good stuff in life, we'd be surrounded by millionares, men with dongs so big they have a silhouette like a t square, and overweight Ethiopian children.

Unfortunately, we don't control the Universe with our minds. What you are likely experiencing is called a Type 1Error; a false positive. You pray, something you prayed about happened. Then you prayed another 20 times, nothing happened, and you forgot about it. It's a classic error all animals make.

Positive thinking/meditation/focusing on our goals...all can be explained in their effectiveness by natural psychological processes- it's no indication of god.

Quite frankly, no scientific evidence is needed to explain the underlying mechanism's of prayer's effectiveness because...
the NOTION of prayer's effectiveness isn't at all supported by science-
there is simply no data to the effect that anyone who asks this or that intangible being for something is more likely to get it.

I don't know that atheists are such because they have no "need" to believe in something "greater" and "benevolent"-
they simply see no evidence for such an entity.

Very strange, that- to be able to translate our wishes and fantasies into actual belief that those things exist.

Last edited by Bethie on 22 Apr 2011, 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Isn't that what I just said?

I never said you could alter reality with your mind. A lot would become clear if you actually read what I said without putting words in my mouth and running with it.

No? You started a thread about prayer, none of the things I named.

It would seem a lot would become clear if you'd either be less ambiguous in your writing,
or stop snapping at people who take you at face value.

When someone asks if focusing your life around an aim makes it more likely to happen,
and you answer with "I think so. That's always how it works for me when I pray"
what conclusion, exactly, do you think a reasonable person would draw,
if not that you feel you can alter reality with your thoughts?

"Birds of a feather flock together."