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Philologos
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07 May 2011, 7:19 pm

A member of the Inner Circle poses this question:

If one finds in a writing a coherent set of statements that seems likely to be true -

BUT the writing in question derives from a questionable source and incorporates other statements that are clearly unacceptable -

Can one safely / is it appropriate to take the first as reliable despite the problematic nature of the matrix?



leejosepho
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07 May 2011, 11:07 pm

Some of the best things I have ever learned have come from some of the craziest people I have ever met ... such as, "Why do we all sit around pondering our navels and yet expect to get well? Our alleged minds our out to get us, I suspect."

Overall, the message is the message no matter who might be conveying it ... but of course, we must learn to discern.


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Fnord
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07 May 2011, 11:09 pm

Question everything, even your own ability to reason effectively.


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Philologos
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07 May 2011, 11:32 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Some of the best things I have ever learned have come from some of the craziest people I have ever met ... such as, "Why do we all sit around pondering our navels and yet expect to get well? Our alleged minds our out to get us, I suspect."

Overall, the message is the message no matter who might be conveying it ... but of course, we must learn to discern.


Which is in general my stance, and what I have told the referenced Ingrouper.



Philologos
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07 May 2011, 11:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
Question everything, even your own ability to reason effectively.


I do, at least daily. Don't you wish everybody did - as the deodorant soap commercial used to say?



naturalplastic
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07 May 2011, 11:35 pm

A stopped clock is sometimes right.
But that doesnt make a stopped clock a reliable source.
If your watch agrees with the stopped clock then its right.


Sounds like your talking about an ancient text of somekind.
If some other source backs up what the unreliable source says on some points then those particular points might be sorta believable.



Philologos
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08 May 2011, 12:10 am

Actually, it need be and is not in this case an ancient text.

As you may be aware, there is a lot of semi-popular, sometimes formal [in fact it applies to some theories in mainline academia] literature making claims about psychology, diet, the universe, exercise, sex, economics - and on and on. Many of these books - including some with big academic credentials - suggest to the careful reader that the author's head was turned off or had overheated. And yet there are valuable diamonds in the clay.

For example [I am not at liberty to give my ingrouper's details, but this is mine]: Generative grammar is a trashy gimmick that has come close to destroying linguistics worldwide. I could but will not here document.

AND yet - ordered rule generative phonology - one component of generative grammar - contains an insight which showed me the way to make sense of phonologic analysis, where approaches generally more reliable / useful than TG had let me down.



naturalplastic
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08 May 2011, 12:43 am

Philologos wrote:
Actually, it need be and is not in this case an ancient text.

As you may be aware, there is a lot of semi-popular, sometimes formal [in fact it applies to some theories in mainline academia] literature making claims about psychology, diet, the universe, exercise, sex, economics - and on and on. Many of these books - including some with big academic credentials - suggest to the careful reader that the author's head was turned off or had overheated. And yet there are valuable diamonds in the clay.

For example [I am not at liberty to give my ingrouper's details, but this is mine]: Generative grammar is a trashy gimmick that has come close to destroying linguistics worldwide. I could but will not here document.

AND yet - ordered rule generative phonology - one component of generative grammar - contains an insight which showed me the way to make sense of phonologic analysis, where approaches generally more reliable / useful than TG had let me down.


Interesting. Something wrong headed contains a gem. It happens. Keep the baby and throw out the bath water of generative grammar.



blauSamstag
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08 May 2011, 2:12 am

Even a stopped clock can tell you the correct time twice a day.

IMHO the responsible thing to do would be to use it as inspiration for further research.



Philologos
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08 May 2011, 8:07 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Even a stopped clock can tell you the correct time twice a day.

IMHO the responsible thing to do would be to use it as inspiration for further research.


Assolutamente [that is not offensive, youse guys]. Which is in fact what the subject has often done - after getting over the dubiety and reluctance that pops into the mind with each new occurrence.