Page 1 of 2 [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Peko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,381
Location: Eastern PA, USA

22 May 2011, 8:50 pm

Ever since I was about 15-16, I've have gone through periodic stints of religious researching (especially online but have read 1-2 books), particularly in regards to gnosticism. I recently came up with a hypothesis and I was wondering how many people will think I'm nuts? One of the general principles is that their is a male and a female god or that they are two halves of the same being (depends on what your reading). So, since some theories seem to say that the creator God is male and wisdom is female (ironically creation is associated w/ the mother/feminine usually though) that maybe the male/female halves are equal or two separate beings like a pissed off divorced couple? As in the male God said the "you shall have no other gods before me" b/c he was pissed off at his female creator partner... also anyone noticed the difference in God's moods in the Torah/Old Testament vs. the New Testament? (He seems go from pissed off/angsty/moody, to happy/merciful/strangely satisfied to me. :?)


_________________
Balance is needed within the universe, can be demonstrated in most/all concepts/things. Black/White, Good/Evil, etc.
All dependent upon your own perspective in your own form of existence, so trust your own gut and live the way YOU want/need to.


dionysian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 921
Location: Germantown, MD

22 May 2011, 9:01 pm

In the Old Testament creation stories, the word that has been translated in most English bibles as "God" is actually plural.



Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

22 May 2011, 9:02 pm

Not nuts.

Not ready to publish, though.

Bear in mind I am long term academic - where I am coming from.

Option 1: You are maybe just working things out in your head to see some sense in the universe. In which case, keep on working it over, rethinking it every couple months, see how it develops, does it cohere.

Option 2: You are maybe tryhing to see how gnosticism works, in which case I would suggest reading your way into Manichaean and Mandaean writings, with the Nag Hammadi collection. Focus on the acxtual texts or on analyses from before about 1920; I do not trust some of the neoGnostic sources. Gradually you will build a sense.

Whichever - or something else - the reason "Wisdom" gets noted as female is simply that in the main languages of the Gnostic sciptures the WORD for "wisdom" is feminine, Dos not necessarily point to an underlying feminine understanding of Wisdom. Though we do have Athena / Minerva, virgin goddess focussed on wisdom [and a bit severe / austere].



Peko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,381
Location: Eastern PA, USA

22 May 2011, 10:04 pm

I think I'm mostly option 1 w/ a slight inclination towards option 2. The main gnosticism related book I've read was "The Gospel of Judas Iscariot" by Bart D. Ehrman (which I still think was pretty complicated for a 15 year old). If I were to try and find and read the "Manichaean and Mandaean writings, with the Nag Hammadi collection" that you suggested, how likely is it I could find them online through google or a collegiate database? Also, would I need to know/learn other languages besides English (I know the original texts are definitely not English)? I would guess the original text languages would range from Coptic, Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew and other Middle Eastern languages mostly) (and possibly some East Asian, but I'd guess most European languages besides Latin and Greek would be useless).


_________________
Balance is needed within the universe, can be demonstrated in most/all concepts/things. Black/White, Good/Evil, etc.
All dependent upon your own perspective in your own form of existence, so trust your own gut and live the way YOU want/need to.


dionysian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 921
Location: Germantown, MD

22 May 2011, 10:07 pm

I would recommend The Gospel According to Thomas... It's probably the most profound of the Gnostic Gospels?



Peko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,381
Location: Eastern PA, USA

22 May 2011, 10:22 pm

dionysian wrote:
I would recommend The Gospel According to Thomas... It's probably the most profound of the Gnostic Gospels?


Isn't that the gospel that their are rumors that it was written by/in regards to Jesus/Yeshua's possibly identical twin brother?

Thomas = twin (so might be the reason for the name)?


_________________
Balance is needed within the universe, can be demonstrated in most/all concepts/things. Black/White, Good/Evil, etc.
All dependent upon your own perspective in your own form of existence, so trust your own gut and live the way YOU want/need to.


dionysian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 921
Location: Germantown, MD

22 May 2011, 10:26 pm

Peko wrote:
dionysian wrote:
I would recommend The Gospel According to Thomas... It's probably the most profound of the Gnostic Gospels?


Isn't that the gospel that their are rumors that it was written by/in regards to Jesus/Yeshua's possibly identical twin brother?

Thomas = twin (so might be the reason for the name)?

Oh, I didn't know about any of that. I just think it's the most spiritual/mystical.



jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

22 May 2011, 10:34 pm

The take I got from long discussions about the Apocryphon of John with my roomate was a bit different. I think we have to go through or past the god of the bible to know the creator entities. He's part of creation, too.

Speaking from experience, plenty of people will think you're nuts anytime you talk about this stuff. But, if you're here, that's probably not an unfamiliar situation. :wink:

I liked the Gospel of Thomas. Quick read, but full of subtlety. I'd have to understand them all to recognize the most profound, though, and I won't claim that.


_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade


NobelCynic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Age: 77
Gender: Male
Posts: 600
Location: New Jersey, U.S.A.

23 May 2011, 7:03 am

dionysian wrote:
Peko wrote:
dionysian wrote:
I would recommend The Gospel According to Thomas... It's probably the most profound of the Gnostic Gospels?


Isn't that the gospel that their are rumors that it was written by/in regards to Jesus/Yeshua's possibly identical twin brother?

Thomas = twin (so might be the reason for the name)?

Oh, I didn't know about any of that. I just think it's the most spiritual/mystical.

That is discussed here, Thomas might have looked a lot like Jesus giving birth to the rumors.

Penko will also find the rest of the NagHammadi library on that site.


_________________
NobelCynic (on WP)
My given name is Kenneth


dionysian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 921
Location: Germantown, MD

23 May 2011, 7:15 am

NobelCynic wrote:
dionysian wrote:
Peko wrote:
dionysian wrote:
I would recommend The Gospel According to Thomas... It's probably the most profound of the Gnostic Gospels?


Isn't that the gospel that their are rumors that it was written by/in regards to Jesus/Yeshua's possibly identical twin brother?

Thomas = twin (so might be the reason for the name)?

Oh, I didn't know about any of that. I just think it's the most spiritual/mystical.

That is discussed here, Thomas might have looked a lot like Jesus giving birth to the rumors.

Penko will also find the rest of the NagHammadi library on that site.

Oh, OK. I wasn't thinking of that one. I was thinking of...

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html



Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

23 May 2011, 8:59 am

Right - that was pretty much what I thought.

You should find at least a lot of Nag Hammadi on line, and I know there are some Mandean scriptures up, HAVE to me Manicagean.

But if your interest is not thast scholarly, I would say do not go too far that way.

No need for other languages, though [as a language educator and word freak I have to say this, it isd in the CODE] if you WANTED to learn Latin and Greek and Syriac and Coptic and Hebrew, how could it hurt? But even with a scholarly interest you ould go a long way in English or French or German.

Gospel of Thomas, sure. It is pretty simple, very available - my mother loved it. I'm thinking it will not take you that far, though, Some of the Nag Hammadi stuff might be helpful - though that is a library like the Dead Sea Scrolls, so varies a lot.

I think your best bet is a lot of thought, light reading in the texts finding a good study of Gnosticism by someone not TOO scholarly, not passionately dedicated NOR intensely critical. Sorry I can't recommend anything, but it isnot a direction I have gone.

There WAS a decent paperback collection of the Nag Hammadi texts with introduction and comments - my motrher had a copy of that and I have seen in in used bookstores.



dionysian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 921
Location: Germantown, MD

23 May 2011, 9:09 am

Philologos wrote:
Gospel of Thomas, sure. It is pretty simple, very available - my mother loved it. I'm thinking it will not take you that far, though

The truth lies within. Contemplation will take you everywhere you need to go. No need to fall through the rabbit hole in order to get there.


_________________
"All valuation rests on an irrational bias."
-George Santayana

ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS


Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

23 May 2011, 11:01 am

Which is why I am advising a lot more thought than reading.

We used to have two - three professed Gnostics around here - where are they when we need them?



techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,694
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

23 May 2011, 11:31 am

I have to admit that I don't really know much about Gnosticism in its organized sense, I remember seeing a video from some self proclaimed gnostic organizations in the UK and they selected very specific books, not really the ones I would have gone after.

That said though many Gnostic writings are fascinating, the Tripartite Tractate has to be one of my favorite and I found for a long time that I could relate a great deal to Valentinean thought. The only thing about it though, if you talk about a male or female god I would think you're talking about the Logos? That's really more a minor entity than 'the' god, or likely even the aeons of aeons for that matter.


_________________
The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

23 May 2011, 12:06 pm

dionysian wrote:
In the Old Testament creation stories, the word that has been translated in most English bibles as "God" is actually plural.


You are referring to the Hebrew word "Elohim". The plural need not be taken literally. It is something like the "royal We".

ruveyn



jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

23 May 2011, 12:17 pm

For some Gnostic-influenced fiction, read Phillip K. Dick.


_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade