Why are there so few Atheists outside of Wrongplanet?
- Outside of WP, there are less tech-savvy people. Tech-savvy people are more likely to be atheist.
- Outside of WP and in public people are less likely to talk or debate religious matters, making religious identification more difficult (Aspies are less likely to uphold this unwritten social norm).
- The distribution of people interested in technical arguments is sparser outside of WP; as atheists are generally more interested in technical argumentation, there will be more of them on WP as it provides a forum for technical argumentation.
- Most people outside of WP have a more developed mirror neuron system; this can go into overdrive, causing them to attribute intentionality to non-existent entities. Without a mirror neuron system that developed, its more difficult to make such a mistake.
iamnotaparakeet
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There are quite enough atheists to be getting on with. The vast majority of my academic contacts are atheist. The majority, however, like the majority of theists in the same environment, are socialized to play nice, no dissy hissy fits. In the universities where I have operated, it is very hard to tell the difference between theist and atheist.
One of my Yank professors - could not get close to him but I respect him a lot - was definitely atheist. One of my Brit professors - could not get close to him but I respect him a lot - was definitely theist, had been Evangelical missionary. From wlistening to them, workingh with them, you could not tell which was which.
MP has claimed and pulled up statistics purporting to show a numerical preponderance of theists. Out of my repertoire of people, academic or other, American, Canadian, British or other, the theists are a very small minority.
Humanity being what it is, we play it safe, as MP hints. I have only met about one theist and one atheist who would get strident face to face.
iamnotaparakeet
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Millions is not a high value when you compare it to a world population of billions.
Perhaps because in some non-western nations people can get easily killed for leaving their particular faith or not being a part of it? Also, the particular type of atheist which is vocal in bashing others who think differently than they do may detract people who think differently from bothering to consider their thoughts? Especially when their thoughts are interspersed with thoughts about the thoughts of others and how stupid they think those thoughts are. Is that convoluted enough?
That only indicates that well-educated people whose professions revolve around refining their skills with reasoned argumentation or technical study are more likely to be atheist than the general population.
From the info I have, which is obviously imperfect, there's a greater concentration of atheists in academia and IT sectors, and a slightly greater proportion in professional class occupations overall. At least in the United States.
Last edited by Master_Pedant on 17 Jun 2011, 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ruveyn
This is ironic, since those who hold faith in the human race hold the idea that humans are intelligent and creative and such.
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According to a (well sourced) wiki page...
"The analyses of the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Study 1) and the General Social Surveys (Study 2) show that adolescent and adult intelligence significantly increases adult liberalism, atheism, and men’s (but not women’s) value on sexual exclusivity."[42][43][44]
Overall, U.S. Americans who profess no religion or self-identify as Atheist or Agnostic are more likely to be white non-Hispanic or Asian and less likely to be African American, as compared to the general adult population in U.S.[45]
In the U.S., 55 percent of atheists are under age 35, while 30 percent are 50 and over (compared to 37 percent of the total population). As a group agnostics are older than atheists, though still younger than the general population.[45] Comparing this 2001 data with the 1990 National Survey of Religious Identification (NSRI) provides evidence of a trend towards secularization among the younger American population.[45][46]
In the US men are more likely to be atheists than women, and also rate lower on various other measures of religiousity such as frequency of prayer.[47]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographi ... _in_the_US
The lower levels of irreligion in general and atheism in particular among African Americans probably correlates with their lower average income. Given that the US has such a piss-poor welfare state, much of its functions are done by evangelical charities, which has a proselytising effect on the demographic. Compare with other countries:
Nor is it all that surprising that faith has imploded in most of the west. Every single 1st world nation that is irreligious shares a set of distinctive attributes. These include handgun control, anti-corporal punishment and anti-bullying policies, rehabilitative rather than punitive incarceration, intensive sex education that emphasizes condom use, reduced socio-economic disparity via tax and welfare systems combined with comprehensive health care, increased leisure time that can be dedicated to family needs and stress reduction, and so forth.
As a result the great majority enjoy long, safe, comfortable, middle class lives that they can be confident will not be lost due to factors beyond their control. It is hard to lose one's middle class status in Europe, Canada and so forth, and modern medicine is always accessible regardless of income. Nor do these egalitarians culture emphasize the attainment of immense wealth and luxury, so most folks are reasonably satisfied with what they have got. Such circumstances dramatically reduces peoples' need to believe in supernatural forces that protect them from life's calamities, help them get what they don't have, or at least make up for them with the ultimate Club Med of heaven. One of us (Zuckerman) interviewed secular Europeans and verified that the process of secularization is casual; most hardly think about the issue of God, not finding the concept relevant to their contented lives.
The result is plain to see. Not a single advanced democracy that enjoys benign, progressive socio-economic conditions retains a high level of popular religiosity. They all go material.
It is the great anomaly, the United States, that has long perplexed sociologists. America has a large, well educated middle class that lives in comfort—so why do they still believe in a supernatural creator? Because they are afraid and insecure. Arbitrary dismissal from a long held job, loss of health insurance followed by an extended illness, excessive debt due to the struggle to live like the wealthy; before you know it a typical American family can find itself financially ruined. Overwhelming medical bills are a leading cause of bankruptcy.
In part to try to accumulate the wealth needed to try to prevent financial catastrophe, in part to compete in a culture of growing economic disparity with the super rich, the typical American is engaged in a Darwinian, keeping up with the Jones competition in which failure to perform to expectations further raises levels of psychological stress. It is not, therefore, surprising that most look to friendly forces from the beyond to protect them from the pitfalls of a risky American life, and if that fails compensate with a blissful eternal existence.
The effect can be more direct. For instance, the absence of universal health care encourages the utilization of faith-based medical charities. The latter, as well intentioned as they are, cannot provide the comprehensive health services that best suppress mortality at all ages. But charities extend the reach of the churches into the secular community, enhancing their ability to influence society and politics, and retain and recruit members.
Rather than religion being an integral part of the American character, the main reason the United States is the only prosperous democracy that retains a high level of religious belief and activity is because we have substandard socio-economic conditions and the highest level of disparity. The other factors widely thought to be driving forces behind mass faith—desire for the social links provided by churches, fear of societal amorality, fear of death, genetic predisposition towards religiosity, etc—are not critical simply because hundreds of millions have freely accepted being nonreligious mortals in a dozen and a half democracies. Such motives and factors can be operative only if socio-economic circumstances are sufficiently poor to sustain mass creationism and religion.
So much for the common belief that supernatural-based religiosity is the default mode inherent to the human condition. What about the hypothesis that has gained wide currency, that competition between the plethora of churches spawned by the separation of church and state is responsible for America's highly religious population? Australia and New Zealand copied the American separation between church and state in their constitutions, yet they are much more irreligious. Meanwhile the most religious advanced democracies in Europe are those where the Catholic church is, or was, dominant.
To put it starkly, the level of popular religion is not a spiritual matter, it is actually the result of social, political and especially economic conditions (please note we are discussing large scale, long term population trends, not individual cases). Mass rejection of the gods invariably blossoms in the context of the equally distributed prosperity and education found in almost all 1st world democracies. There are no exceptions on a national basis. That is why only disbelief has proven able to grow via democratic conversion in the benign environment of education and egalitarian prosperity. Mass faith prospers solely in the context of the comparatively primitive social, economic and educational disparities and poverty still characteristic of the 2nd and 3rd worlds and the US.
We can also explain why America has become increasingly at odds with itself. On one hand the growing level of socio-economic disparity that is leaving an increasing portion of the population behind in the socially Darwinian rat-race is boosting levels of hard-line religiosity in the lower classes. On the other hand freedom from belief in the supernatural is rising among the growing segment that enjoys higher incomes and sophisticated education. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Ted Turner, Richard Branson and Rupert Murdoch are typical upper crust disbelievers.
The practical implications are equally breath taking. Every time a nation becomes truly advanced in terms of democratic, egalitarian education and prosperity it loses the faith. It's guaranteed. That is why perceptive theists are justifiably scared. In practical terms their only practical hope is for nations to continue to suffer from socio-economic disparity, poverty and maleducation. That strategy is, of course, neither credible nor desirable. And that is why the secular community should be more encouraged.
...
If and when religion declines in the states Darwin's science will automatically benefit enormously as it has in ungodly Europe, but Darwinistic social policies will not fare as well as they have in Christian America.
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/paul07/ ... index.html
MarketAndChurch
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I think it's fine. we have that moment in our early adult years where we come to terms with whatever our positions(for, against, or don't care) are on the many issues in life, and move on with life - be it making a family, starting a career, going back to school, or just enjoying life with friends or family.
Plus atheism is unattractive. That this existence is not meaning infused and its all over when you die doesn't it well with the average being.
To be little the human experience to chemicals as many of them do is also unromantic.
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