Knights Templar threat - ROFLWTF

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01 Aug 2011, 3:30 pm

I just watched a video from Fareed Zakaria, raising the question that between the Norway gunman and a few comics in Mexico who have a Knights Templar cartel that we're possibly seeing a resurgence of the once hidden and underground group.

I'm really confused, especially when someone who's a touted thinker who writes best sellers on economics gets on video and starts spouting tabloid stuff. I don't get it and I start worrying when people like that go way out on a limb (the odds of actually predicting that and being right are about 1 in 1000 - *unless* you happen to know that a few friends in high places will be orchestrating some kind of scare).

Does anyone have any idea what he or 'they' are up to with this?

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Philologos
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01 Aug 2011, 3:56 pm

By comics, do you mean comedians or what in my day would have been a slang use of "clowns"?

I will say:

I sincerely doubt the Templars OR the Masons OR the Rosicrucians have been a menace in the past 500 years.

For the rest - I can tell you thing - a LOT of academics who are very competent in their field and good people in most of their private life have really weird cranky ideas. Some ofd them of magnificent stupidity.

And some of them go very public. It does not usually affect their REAL work.

techstepgenr8tion
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01 Aug 2011, 4:34 pm

Philologos wrote:

By comics, do you mean comedians or what in my day would have been a slang use of "clowns"?

Really I was saying 'idiot'.

Philologos wrote:

I will say:

I sincerely doubt the Templars OR the Masons OR the Rosicrucians have been a menace in the past 500 years.

Same, and then some.

Philologos wrote:

For the rest - I can tell you thing - a LOT of academics who are very competent in their field and good people in most of their private life have really weird cranky ideas. Some ofd them of magnificent stupidity.

And some of them go very public. It does not usually affect their REAL work.

I hope that reel was a fluke though. It seems like a few different major browsers have it scrolling on their news feed. Then again I can't possibly imagine them trying to - say - blow up the airwaves with a scare about now nonexistent organizations and not having at least half the people watching that wondering what kind of strange smoke was being blown up their arses.

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blauSamstag
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01 Aug 2011, 5:04 pm

Lunatics.

Distilled from Focault's Pendulum:

There are four kinds of people in the world. Cretins, fools, morons, and lunatics.

Cretins don't even talk; they sort of slobber and stumble. You know, the guy who presses the ice cream cone against his forehead, or enters a revolving door the wrong way.

Being a fool is more complicated. It's a form of social behavior. A fool is one who always talks outside his glass. He wants to talk about what's in the glass, but somehow or other he misses. He's the guy who puts his foot in his mouth. For example, he says how's your lovely wife to someone whose wife has just left him.

Fools are in great demand, especially on social occasions. They embarrass everyone but provide material for conversation. In their positive form, they become diplomats. Talking outside the glass when someone else blunders helps to change the subject.

Fools don't claim that cats bark, but they talk about cats when everyone else is talking about dogs. They offend all the rules of conversation, and when they really offend, they're magnificent.

Morons never do the wrong thing. They get their reasoning wrong. Like the fellow who says all dogs are pets and all dogs bark, and cats are pets, too, and therefore cats bark. Or that all Athenians are mortal, and all the citizens of Piraeus are mortal, so all the citizens of Piraeus are Athenians. Which they are, but only accidentally. Morons will occasionally say something that's right, but they say it for the wrong reason.

A lunatic is easily recognized. He is a moron who doesn't know the ropes. The moron proves his thesis; he has a logic, however twisted it may be. The lunatic, on the other hand, doesn't concern himself at all with logic; he works by short circuits. For him, everything proves everything else. The lunatic is all id6e fixe, and whatever he comes across confirms his lunacy. You can tell him by the liberties he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars.

Last edited by blauSamstag on 01 Aug 2011, 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

techstepgenr8tion
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01 Aug 2011, 5:42 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

Lunatics.

Distilled from Focault's Pendulum:

There are four kinds of people in the world.

Wow. What ensues from there is just dark, perhaps even worthy of its own thread.

So what's your take on Zakaria then, lunatic?

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blauSamstag
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01 Aug 2011, 5:56 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

Lunatics.

Distilled from Focault's Pendulum:

There are four kinds of people in the world.

Wow. What ensues from there is just dark, perhaps even worthy of its own thread.

So what's your take on Zakaria then, lunatic?

]

Hey don't blame me, blame Umberto Eco.

I think anyone claiming to be a modern templar is clearly a lunatic.

They are a templar in the same sense that we have people who claim to be druids or who claim to worship Odin.

They follow an ancient code the same way that wiccans do - by cherry picking a few pieces of history and a few pieces of fiction and calling it an ancient code.

When in reality they are just wearing that affectation the way a fashionista wears prada.

techstepgenr8tion
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01 Aug 2011, 6:00 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

They are a templar in the same sense that we have people who claim to be druids or who claim to worship Odin.

Lol, they're Knights Templar like the Trenchoat Mafia were Cosa Nostra.

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blauSamstag
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01 Aug 2011, 6:03 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

They are a templar in the same sense that we have people who claim to be druids or who claim to worship Odin.

Lol, they're Knights Templar like the Trenchoat Mafia were Cosa Nostra.

Perhaps, but on a larger time scale.

Whether or not there are real Cosa Nostra still alive today is debatable.

It's very, very doubtful that anyone is alive today who represents an unbroken chain of tradition for either druids or the old norse gods.

Goes double for templars. At least.

They're as real as Kwanzaa.

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01 Aug 2011, 6:36 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

Whether or not there are real Cosa Nostra still alive today is debatable.

.

We have a few where I live. They can be found on the Bocce court on good weather days.

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Philologos
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01 Aug 2011, 6:42 pm

ruveyn wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

Whether or not there are real Cosa Nostra still alive today is debatable.

.

We have a few where I live. They can be found on the Bocce court on good weather days.

ruveyn

And I will bet a few minor associates in my former stomping grounds in New Haven. I know a woman whose family in Boston apparently has some connections. I expect the Sicilians in my current vicinity are out of it, though

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01 Aug 2011, 7:04 pm

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/31/what-is-the-knights-templar/

Here is an excerpt from the text that went along with the video:

Quote:

From what sounds like fiction, back to fact: We know that Brevik saw himself as a Knight Templar.

But get this: Halfway across the world from Norway, a new drug gang has recently arisen in Mexico. They call themselves quite simply "The Knights Templar".

And they claim to live by a religious code, a copy of which the Associated Press recently obtained. It says the drug-dealing knights will "defend the values of society...against materialism, injustice and tyranny" and that its members will be "honorable", "noble", "courteous" and "honest".

So they are "honest" drug dealers, selling marijuana, cocaine and whatever else in the name of God?

Anders Breivik's fascination with the Knights is less bizarre - in fact, he's part of a larger movement. People like Breivik are trying to resurrect the idea of a modern-day Crusade, a real clash of civilizations against what they see as an Islamic invasion of Europe.

In fact, Muslims make up only about 3 % of Europe's population and are likely to rise to between 5% and 8% by 2025 and level out at that point. But that doesn't change the reality of the anger, hatred and violence.

Ironically, in Breivik's nostalgic view of the medieval world, the Knights Templar resembles nothing so much as al Qaeda, a terrorist organization that is fundamentally opposed to the modern world.

We still don't know if Breivik's boast that there are more lone knights like him waiting to act is true. But if his depiction of the knight as a self-sacrificing assassin on a larger holy mission sounds familiar, it's because it too is mirrored in Islamist terror. That's exactly what a suicide bomber is: A lone fighter, often acting in the so-called interests of a larger movement and willing to kill innocents to draw attention to the cause.

While we have all focused on the dangers of radical Islam and of Muslim terror, the attack in Norway should remind us that there is actually a pretty large problem of other sources of terrorism in the West.

The European Union's 2010 Terrorism Situation and Trend Report has some fascinating findings. It showed that of the 294 terror attacks committed in Europe in 2009, only one was conducted by Islamists. That's a third of one percent.

The most recent statistics show there were 249 terror attacks in Europe in 2010. Only three of those attacks were carried out by Islamist terrorists. Again, that's about one percent. Most of the attacks were by separatist groups or anarchists.

So perhaps that's the lesson we can learn from the events in Norway. Islamic radicalism is a real problem and Islamic terrorism a real threat. But if we ignore other kinds of threats we're likely to be blindsided by another Gabby Giffords shooting or another Virginia Tech massacre.

I see this as a thoughtful commentary that has resulted from the preconceived notions that were widely being reported that Muslim terrorists were behind the act, using the Knights of Templar as an example of other radical ideology that people come up with to support their personal or political agenda. Also, as awareness for the public to understand what the heck this has to do with the Knights of Templar, an historical perspective of the actual organization, and how some are using the "brand name" for their own purposes today.

He clearly stated that we have no evidence that there are other lone assasins as Breivik boasted, but that the ideology exists that people are trying to set up a modern day crusade against the invasion of Europe by Muslims; I read that as an analogy, not a suggestion that the Knights of Templar are actually reorganizing and present a danger to the world. Instead radical ideology, often that of individuals, is the real threat, regardless of how they brand their cause.

I think his main point is that it can be dangerous to focus only on potential Muslim acts of terror, when reality and statistics prove there is a real danger in the western world from radical ideology and lone assasins, other than radical Muslim Terrorism.

There is still some public reporting that there was some kind of covert Muslim connection involved, as recently as a few days ago. There is a clear danger when people abuse the facts in an emotional area like this; it lends fuel for the fire for those radical enough to act on extreme ideology. I heard the latest comment from a religious talkshow host.

It's hard for people to accept that their worst enemies, at times, come from within what are considered safe borders.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but this is one of the most serious journalists around, I don't see him intending anything other than a serious, well thought-out comment here, backed up by some eye opening facts. He's about as far from the tabloid type we have available to trust in the news world, in my opinion. I doubt there are any Rupert Murdochs pulling puppet strings here.

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01 Aug 2011, 7:08 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Hidden groups do exist. Clandestineness has been a moving force in our history. You need obscurity to organize revolutions and revolutions have been important to us.

But of course, cartels naming themselves like legendary knights and an idiot psychopath in Norway are not real threats.

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01 Aug 2011, 7:13 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

They are a templar in the same sense that we have people who claim to be druids or who claim to worship Odin.

Lol, they're Knights Templar like the Trenchoat Mafia were Cosa Nostra.

there's really nothing to add to the title of this thread.

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01 Aug 2011, 7:19 pm

The only surviving branch of the Knights Templar is the Freemasons, and even they have gone through radical changes since the middle ages. However, trying too bring about political and social change with a lone active shooter is out of character for them. They tend to work from inside the government.

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01 Aug 2011, 7:28 pm

John_Browning wrote:

Right, its a big social club with play acting on initiation. The cool thing about is that its about as exclusive as boyscouts - all you need to do is claim to believe in God. I remember being out in Buffalo for work, at a hotel with a big convention hall, and that the place was packed with an incidentally all black Masonic group. It really just sounds like community done right and, on a lot of levels, I wish atheists and agnostics had something equivalent available - I'd join.

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01 Aug 2011, 8:54 pm

Serious answer: If you think of "Knight Templar" as a vocation, in the sense that "Arsonist" is a vocation, if there were a real increase in people who believe that being an arsonist is great, that would be worrying. Same goes for self-styled templars.

But Breivik is a lunatic, and the drug runners are just drug runners looking for a cool name.

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