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MCalavera
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08 Feb 2011, 4:59 am

So is truth relative? Or is it absolute?

Truth Absolute?

If you believe that truth is always absolute, then is a color blinded person telling the truth when he states the color that he sees of a certain object even if you, as someone who's not color blind, sees a different color pertaining to that object?

Truth Relative?

If, on the other hand, you believe that truth is always relative, then is it the absolute truth that truth is relative?

***

Here's what I think.

There is not just one truth. There are many truths (infinite truths). Some of them are relative and some of them are absolute.

I've been giving this some good thinking lately and that is what I've come up with after days of deep thinking.

Anyway, whether you agree or disagree, please share with us your thoughts.

Cheers.



ruveyn
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08 Feb 2011, 7:26 am

Which truth. If one says "I am big" it would not be meaningful unless one stated a scale or criterion of bigness.

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leejosepho
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08 Feb 2011, 7:36 am

MCalavera wrote:
... is a color blinded person telling the truth when he states the color that he sees ...

Yes, and same for the blind man who would say the object is not visible to him at all. However, each man's "truth" as to what he sees does not change the truth of the actual color of the object in question. One man's screwdriver might be a can opener in the eyes of someone else, but merely *using* a screwdriver to open a can does not in truth make it a can opener.


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ryan93
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08 Feb 2011, 8:27 am

I think there is an objective Truth. I am doubtful that humans have access to it, because we have to make due with the observation/logic method. When we state something as "True", it's often a statement of collective or personal belief, backed up by evidence.

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If you believe that truth is always absolute, then is a color blinded person telling the truth when he states the color that he sees of a certain object even if you, as someone who's not color blind, sees a different color pertaining to that object?


Yes. A man could rightly state "I see green", if he defined green to be a photon of light with wavelength of about 530nm. A colour-blind man could say "I see grey", if he defined grey to be a photon of certain properties. Both statements are true. We cannot compare our perceptions, merely state them. This does not imply that the photon isn't actually of an objective, real wavelength. It means we mightn't be able to perceive it. As long as we don't claim it to the the case that the photon IS of wavelength 530nm (which we do have to do pragmatically), we are in the clear philosophically.

There are two definitions of true that I use; an accurate description of the metaphysical state of the Universe being "Truth", and an idea with a huge degree of empirical verification being "truth". I think it is necessary to admit that we make certain assumptions when talking about the universe, that undermine the quality of our evidence.


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richardbenson
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08 Feb 2011, 8:55 am

Of course I believe it could be. if another dimenshion exists, where the big purple dinosaures rex is, ruling the world! :jester:


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ryan93
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08 Feb 2011, 9:03 am

richardbenson wrote:
Of course I believe it could be. if another dimenshion exists, where the big purple dinosaures rex is, ruling the world! :jester:


still, to postulate an alternate universe and say that IS some way implies that there is an absolute truth to ascertain :P


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ryan93
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08 Feb 2011, 9:09 am

richardbenson wrote:
Of course I believe it could be. if another dimenshion exists, where the big purple dinosaures rex is, ruling the world! :jester:


still, to postulate an alternate universe and say that IS some way implies that there is an absolute truth to ascertain :P


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richardbenson
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08 Feb 2011, 9:17 am

what you have seen to have forgotten is, the dinsosaur can see you but you cant see him!
its like being in a lineup at the police station being views through two way glass! :pig:


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ryan93
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08 Feb 2011, 9:51 am

richardbenson wrote:
what you have seen to have forgotten is, the dinsosaur can see you but you cant see him!
its like being in a lineup at the police station being views through two way glass! :pig:


Clearly, but consider this:

1, The Ghost that never Lies says I'm right
2, ???
3, Profit

See? :lol:


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AceOfSpades
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08 Feb 2011, 10:02 am

The truth is absolute, but our interpretation of it isn't.



ruveyn
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08 Feb 2011, 11:05 am

The Gold Standard of Truth is its correspondence with Fact.

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visagrunt
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08 Feb 2011, 2:27 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The Gold Standard of Truth is its correspondence with Fact.

ruveyn


It seems to me your argument is circular. What is, after all, fact?

Since we are--at root--limited in our collective understanding of the universe by what we can observe, then that which we believe to be fact is constrained by our capacity to observe.


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ruveyn
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08 Feb 2011, 4:19 pm

visagrunt wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The Gold Standard of Truth is its correspondence with Fact.

ruveyn


It seems to me your argument is circular. What is, after all, fact?



Truth is a predicate that applies to propositions or assertions. Facts are what is in the world. Facts are Out There. Truth is in our heads.

ruveyn



visagrunt
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08 Feb 2011, 4:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Truth is a predicate that applies to propositions or assertions. Facts are what is in the world. Facts are Out There. Truth is in our heads.

ruveyn


Facts are just as much in our head as truth. After all we can only express facts in the languages that we have developed to express them.

Scientify history is littered with examples of "facts" that have been later discovered not to be, because our capacity to observe and evaluate has improved. That which we consider fact today may well be fiction tomorrow.


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ruveyn
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08 Feb 2011, 4:47 pm

visagrunt wrote:

Scientify history is littered with examples of "facts" that have been later discovered not to be, because our capacity to observe and evaluate has improved. That which we consider fact today may well be fiction tomorrow.


More data is reveals what the facts are. Errors are always possible.

In any case facts are details and states of the world as they ARE as opposed to our opinions and suppositions.

ruveyn