What IS justice?

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24 Sep 2011, 11:36 am

Is justice simply a legalized form of revenge? Or is it a broader concept of equality and fairness that has little to do with vindictiveness? For example, compare 'environmental justice' or 'social justice' to the most common use of the word, 'criminal justice'.

ruveyn
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24 Sep 2011, 11:39 am

There is no universal agreed upon definition. It is like the term "fair" (as in fair play). The meaning is understood intuitively but an objective definition is lacking.

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25 Sep 2011, 10:40 am

donnie_darko wrote:

It's easier to understand justice if you look at it from an insurance perspective. Justice is in essence an attempt to make a party whole from a loss.

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25 Sep 2011, 11:16 am

The Republic by Plato talked a lot about this subject.

For him, justice is a sort of specialization, a virtue that makes a person good. Justice is a social and consensus consciousness that makes a society harmonious and good with itself.

Thrasymachus (a real character in the book) had another view which said: Justice is "the interest for the stronger", a cynical view yet very down to earth.

CrinklyCrustacean
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26 Sep 2011, 1:22 am

An example of justice is when the punishment fits the crime.

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26 Sep 2011, 4:54 am

In practice justice doesn't exist anymore.

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26 Sep 2011, 11:47 am

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:

An example of justice is when the punishment fits the crime.

What is a crime and what is "fit"?

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26 Sep 2011, 1:23 pm

Justice is a lie.

A vague consensual delusion that wrongs can be put right.

If Jesus of Nazereth taught anything of worth, it was that frequently if you have been done wrong, you are better off lumping it and putting it behind you.

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26 Sep 2011, 1:56 pm

Justice is the impression that a wrong that has been done to you or your community has been righted.

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26 Sep 2011, 2:34 pm

phil777 wrote:

Justice is the impression that a wrong that has been done to you or your community has been righted.

I've never witnessed someone who honestly believed that they received justice.

donnie_darko
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26 Sep 2011, 4:10 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

phil777 wrote:

Justice is the impression that a wrong that has been done to you or your community has been righted.

I've never witnessed someone who honestly believed that they received justice.

I've heard of victim's family members who had their loved one's killer put to death and still weren't happy because the criminal died peacefully. Almost makes you lose sympathy for them.

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26 Sep 2011, 4:38 pm

donnie_darko wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

phil777 wrote:

Justice is the impression that a wrong that has been done to you or your community has been righted.

I've never witnessed someone who honestly believed that they received justice.

I've heard of victim's family members who had their loved one's killer put to death and still weren't happy because the criminal died peacefully. Almost makes you lose sympathy for them.

The math on the other side is even messier. Some of the convicted know they deserve whatever they get and more than they can ever conceive of, some don't think they deserve it.

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26 Sep 2011, 4:40 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

The math on the other side is even messier. Some of the convicted know they deserve whatever they get and more than they can ever conceive of, some don't think they deserve it.

Very true. I actually reject the 'deserts' theory of justice altogether, but that's another topic.

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27 Sep 2011, 1:27 am

ruveyn wrote:

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:

An example of justice is when the punishment fits the crime.

What is a crime and what is "fit"?

ruveyn

Crime:

Oxford English Dictionary wrote:

(2) An act or omission constituting an offence (usually a grave one) against an individual or the state and punishable by law.

Fit:

Oxford English Dictionary wrote:

(1) Well adapted or suited to the conditions or circumstances of the case, answering the purpose, proper or appropriate.

Justice:

Oxford English Dictionary wrote:

to render (one) what is his due, or vindicate his just claims; to treat (one) fairly by acknowledging his merits or the like; hence, To treat (a subject or thing) in a manner showing due appreciation, to deal with (it) as is right or fitting.

ruveyn
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27 Sep 2011, 4:15 am

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:

An example of justice is when the punishment fits the crime.

What is a crime and what is "fit"?

ruveyn

Crime:

Oxford English Dictionary wrote:

(2) An act or omission constituting an offence (usually a grave one) against an individual or the state and punishable by law.

Fit:

Oxford English Dictionary wrote:

(1) Well adapted or suited to the conditions or circumstances of the case, answering the purpose, proper or appropriate.

Justice:

Oxford English Dictionary wrote:

Now all you have to do is define "fair" and you are home.

Give up.

ruveyn

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27 Sep 2011, 1:56 pm

Justice is a resolution of a dispute between two or more parties which has been made by a disinterted decision maker (which may, but need not, be a judge or jury), free from bias or prejudice, after giving each and all of them an equal opportunity to present arguments of fact and law.

Justice is an ideal, which is prone to pitfalls, the most obvious of which are:

1) Irresoluble disputes

There are disputes between parties in which no resolution can be found because the interests of the parties are mutually exclusive. Solomon's wisdom prevailed not because Solomon was a wise decision maker, himself, but because he was wise enough to force the parties into a position in which one abandoned her interest in favour of a larger interest.

2) Impractical remedies

The law cannot ressurect the dead or unsay slander.

3) Freedom from bias and prejudice

No one is free from bias and prejudice. We can only be conscious of our preconceptions and attempt to disabuse ourselves of them.

4) Constraints of law.

The law must work within the constraints of law and of equity. Where the law does not permit a just solution, and the rules of equity do not provide relief, a just resolution will be elusive.

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