If time began with the big bang what happened "before&q

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Pixel8
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18 Dec 2005, 8:24 pm

If time began with the big bang what happened "before"?

This is something I think a lot about and try to fathom.

My theory to date is that everything before the big bang came into existence with the big bang. Everything before and afterwards happened or is happening at the same time. Perhaps everything that could ever have happened or could ever happen is happening/ has happened at the same time.

If so does this include it not happening?

This sort of conversation goes down like a lead balloon with NTs,
I'm hoping I'll get a more intelligent response from you guys.

I hope I'm making sense, tell me if I'm not.


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Maka-Ra
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18 Dec 2005, 9:20 pm

> If time began with the big bang what happened "before"?

Time did not begin per se, nor does it exist in any sense that you are likely to have considered. I'm afraid that the questions you are asking make little or no sense.

There are several books on what is called 'Pop Physics' out there that can provide you with some rudmentary explainations of some of these ideas. Consider looking into Minkowski Space and General Relativity if you're interested in learning more. If you're really interested, take Intro to Quantum and then Intro to General and Special Relativity at your local college.

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18 Dec 2005, 9:56 pm

Time as we know it, as a 4th dimension of space, would not have really existed.....

A mathematical concept of abstract time might have gone on before this, but nothing that would make sense or have meaning to us.

It's more or less impossible to really know what happened before the big bang, due to the inability to observe the metaverse (which by definition is unobservable and can only be inferred). :(



kolrabi
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19 Dec 2005, 2:50 am

Pixel8 wrote:
If time began with the big bang what happened "before"?


If time began with the big bang, there is no "before". Like there are no negative numbers on a standard ruler.

Larval wrote:
Time as we know it, as a 4th dimension of space, would not have really existed.....


The phenomenon of time is really a psychological one. It helps people categorize their current perceptions into memories, ongoing experience and fantasy (based on the former two) into a logical order that makes sense for them. Just because I have memories of yesterday it doesn't imply a "past", because all the remembering and fantasizing stuff happens right now in the "present". How could we deduce the existence of time by just that?


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Mithrandir
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19 Dec 2005, 3:02 am

If Matter existed after the big bang, what happened before?

I had an idea that the universe goes full circle. There is no end.
When the universe is destroyed it recreates itself again.


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Namiko
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19 Dec 2005, 12:11 pm

Law of Conservation: All matter and (total) energy that is in a closed system (the universe) has been there forever and will exist forever, by the laws of physics. If there was a big bang, where did all the matter come from? That is what I would like to know...


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toddjh
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19 Dec 2005, 1:03 pm

Asking what happened before the Big Bang is like asking what's north of the North Pole. The question itself doesn't make sense, so any answer we give would be incoherent.

As for where all the "stuff" came from, there are a few possibilities. The most interesting right now is based on the fact that the action of gravity can act like negative energy under some circumstances. It's possible that, since the universe is expanding, this negative gravitational energy from the expansion cancels out the positive energy bound up in the matter, and so the total net energy of the universe is zero.

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Gstla2
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22 Dec 2006, 9:11 pm

Well......
If the energy is zero then.....
Before the universe there was nothing.
How could Nothing create matter and stuff that is canceling each other out?
Something had to Create universe since there IS impossible that Nothing is created to a universe with laws that prevent chaos in universe.

well my answer is that physically it didnt exist a ting. (before universe)
but God existed before that.
so before universe there was god.



Flagg
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22 Dec 2006, 10:49 pm

Mithrandir wrote:
If Matter existed after the big bang, what happened before?

I had an idea that the universe goes full circle. There is no end.
When the universe is destroyed it recreates itself again.


Sounds about right to me.

There is no beginning, no end.


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22 Dec 2006, 11:28 pm

I think string theory can explain what happens before: what others have said "it starts over again and again". And if any order survived after one generation of the universe died it would be amazing and the closet thing to God as your going to get. But I doubt any knowledge from the "dead" is pass to the "new" universe. But string theory is just a theory and may not be vaild anyway . The most shocking thing is what is a greater thing to accept all matter/energy exsisted for infinity or if it all came into being at the big bang for the first time. Either concept is to hard for me to accept. But one has to be closer to the turth than not. And since there both equalily crazy for me to accpet I can accept either one. I think no amount of science is going to answer this question ever and in the case of the one universe theory (big bang followed by the end forever) it amounts to the most important question in the universe and when evolution
gets close to the very end it will try to solve the riddle. I think another important concept maybe that knowlege , life, evolution, God, etc are all question the universe
if it had a mind does not give a f*** about.



psych
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23 Dec 2006, 7:18 am

big bang theory has been discredited IIRC, or at least the scientific community is split with many favouring IOU infinitely old universe theory. Its got something to do with the discovery of quarks and red-shift - which basically means that we have observed things that clearly pre-date the 'big' bang. Shulgins TIHKAL has a good chapter on this for the layperson.

What this might mean, is that there is/was no single 'big bang', but a lot of different ones at different times and places, going backwards forever.



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23 Dec 2006, 12:34 pm

Flagg wrote:
Mithrandir wrote:
If Matter existed after the big bang, what happened before?

I had an idea that the universe goes full circle. There is no end.
When the universe is destroyed it recreates itself again.


Sounds about right to me.

There is no beginning, no end.


Then the question is - Why is it doing it and who put it there? If its a full circle, why? Who made it a full circle? How did it start and why would it



Drakilor
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23 Dec 2006, 1:15 pm

The universe could have been created in reference to another, where spectators can detect the beginning and end, if any.



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23 Dec 2006, 1:32 pm

I have a feeling people will still be thinking about this when we all long gone.



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23 Dec 2006, 6:20 pm

Pixel8 wrote:
If time began with the big bang what happened "before"?
This is something I think a lot about and try to fathom.

Larval wrote:
It's more or less impossible to really know what happened before the big bang, due to the inability to observe the metaverse (which by definition is unobservable and can only be inferred).

Namiko wrote:
Law of Conservation: All matter and (total) energy that is in a closed system (the universe) has been there forever and will exist forever, by the laws of physics. If there was a big bang, where did all the matter come from? That is what I would like to know...

I've no tolerance for religious explanations nor am I open to belief in creators. Science doesn't answer my questions but I'll stick with it. I've always wondered what was before things were. If there's a startpoint (big bang or some singularity acting as a catalyst), how can one say there was nothing before the beginning ? How can one say there was something before the beginning (bc. then that would be the startpoint) ?
Was there a point at which there was nothing ? If that nothing was something enough to lead to creation of something, then it wasn't really nothing, was it ? Where did stuff come from in the first place, could there have been such a thing as something where there had been nothing previously ? If there was always something, how could that be ?
Both the notions of eternity (it just was, always has been & will be) and finiteness (it didn't used to be, but one day it was, and someday it'll return to non-being) baffle & flummox me.
Drakilor wrote:
The universe could have been created in reference to another, where spectators can detect the beginning and end, if any.

Sounds as likely as any other reason, for example the Douglas Adams book "Restaurant at the End of the Universe" or final scene (of aliens playing marbles) in first "Men In Black" film.


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