Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Republicans have created - 37000 jobs.

Page 1 of 2 [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

01 Nov 2011, 10:21 pm

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/1 ... 370k-jobs/


_________________
.


Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

02 Nov 2011, 12:11 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/27/355181/report-house-gops-budget-cuts-370k-jobs/


The report doesn't take into account all the jobs that would be created due to all these regulators, people needing to be fired from DoJ over Fast & Furious, etc. losing their jobs.

It didn't even take me that long to figure out the flaw in the report.



MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland

02 Nov 2011, 1:38 am

they(The GOP), Obama, and the Democrats can't really create "jobs"...

They can only destroy them, send them away over seas for cheaper works, regulate it till the market is non-existent or heavily favors a competitor who is in good favor with the government, or create temporary ones that are not self-sufficient or require heavy subsidizing via the wealthy.

Saying this person or party created jobs is undeserved credit.


_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.


visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

02 Nov 2011, 11:17 am

Inuyasha wrote:
The report doesn't take into account all the jobs that would be created due to all these regulators, people needing to be fired from DoJ over Fast & Furious, etc. losing their jobs.

It didn't even take me that long to figure out the flaw in the report.


Apples and Oranges, Inuyasha, Apples and Oranges.

Cuts to government expenditure remove money from the economy. Period.

Whether those cuts are to salaries and benefits (cutting positions), acquisitions (cutting sales by American suppliers) or direct transfers, almost every dollar that government does not spend is a dollar that does not circulate in the economy.

Now, in a buyers market for labour, the private sector would be picking up the slack, hiring all those laid off public servants. But that is not the case today. In a flourishing economy, suppliers would have private sector clients for their goods and services (well, most of them--military suppliers might have to twist in the wind a bit).

It's axiomatic in government that the time for cuts is in the good times, and the time to spend is in the bad times. Unfortunately politics and government work to different principles.


_________________
--James


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

02 Nov 2011, 11:20 am

visagrunt wrote:

Cuts to government expenditure remove money from the economy. Period.



Where did the money come from in the first place? Private sources.

ruveyn



DC
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,477

02 Nov 2011, 12:01 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
they(The GOP), Obama, and the Democrats can't really create "jobs"...

They can only destroy them, send them away over seas for cheaper works, regulate it till the market is non-existent or heavily favors a competitor who is in good favor with the government, or create temporary ones that are not self-sufficient or require heavy subsidizing via the wealthy.

Saying this person or party created jobs is undeserved credit.


Lets say the government invest heavily in technology (creating the Internet Protocol) and then heavily in infrastructure (laying lots of fibre) would you think it reasonable to say that ultimately, albeit unwittingly, the government created the jobs of every web designer?

Without the government backed tech & infrastructure it would be impossible for that job to exist...

What about the relationship between the government building the Hoover Dam and the ability of the surrounding area to get cheap electricity and a reliable water supply?

Does the government get no grudging recognition for that enabling role?



Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

02 Nov 2011, 12:11 pm

ruveyn wrote:
visagrunt wrote:

Cuts to government expenditure remove money from the economy. Period.



Where did the money come from in the first place? Private sources.

ruveyn

And? If it isn't then spent then that is removing from the economy for good. Do you know anything about money circulation?



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

02 Nov 2011, 2:09 pm

Gedrene wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
visagrunt wrote:

Cuts to government expenditure remove money from the economy. Period.



Where did the money come from in the first place? Private sources.

ruveyn

And? If it isn't then spent then that is removing from the economy for good. Do you know anything about money circulation?


People buy goods and services with their money. They also invest their money. And they sometimes lend their money to other people to do stuff with it. In any case the money is not buried in the ground or stuffed in a mattress. Therefore it circulates.

When you put you money in bank what do that do with it? They lend it out. It circulates.

Only Pirates bury their treasures.

ruveyn



femme
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 198
Location: chicago illinois

02 Nov 2011, 3:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
visagrunt wrote:

Cuts to government expenditure remove money from the economy. Period.



Where did the money come from in the first place? Private sources.

ruveyn

And? If it isn't then spent then that is removing from the economy for good. Do you know anything about money circulation?


People buy goods and services with their money. They also invest their money. And they sometimes lend their money to other people to do stuff with it. In any case the money is not buried in the ground or stuffed in a mattress. Therefore it circulates.

When you put you money in bank what do that do with it? They lend it out. It circulates.

Only Pirates bury their treasures.

ruveyn


Ruveyn is right again he makes the most since to me such a wise Jew you are :wink:


_________________
I wish I was a Succubus


pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

02 Nov 2011, 4:09 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/27/355181/report-house-gops-budget-cuts-370k-jobs/


The report doesn't take into account all the jobs that would be created due to all these regulators,


Do you have a separate report on the number of jobs that were created due to the regulators?

Inuyasha wrote:
people needing to be fired from DoJ over Fast & Furious, etc. losing their jobs.

Were there 37,000 people who needed to be fired from DoJ over Fast & Furious? Does firing people not contribute to unemployment?

Inuyasha wrote:
It didn't even take me that long to figure out the flaw in the report.

It never does take you long, but what was the flaw in the report?



Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

02 Nov 2011, 8:15 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/27/355181/report-house-gops-budget-cuts-370k-jobs/


The report doesn't take into account all the jobs that would be created due to all these regulators, people needing to be fired from DoJ over Fast & Furious, etc. losing their jobs.

It didn't even take me that long to figure out the flaw in the report.

Darn, the WP.net laugh track apparently broke.


_________________
.


Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

02 Nov 2011, 8:17 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/27/355181/report-house-gops-budget-cuts-370k-jobs/


The report doesn't take into account all the jobs that would be created due to all these regulators, people needing to be fired from DoJ over Fast & Furious, etc. losing their jobs.

It didn't even take me that long to figure out the flaw in the report.

Darn, the WP.net laugh track apparently broke.


Its working here!


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

03 Nov 2011, 10:40 am

DC wrote:

Lets say the government invest heavily in technology (creating the Internet Protocol) and then heavily in infrastructure (laying lots of fibre) would you think it reasonable to say that ultimately, albeit unwittingly, the government created the jobs of every web designer?

Without the government backed tech & infrastructure it would be impossible for that job to exist...

What about the relationship between the government building the Hoover Dam and the ability of the surrounding area to get cheap electricity and a reliable water supply?

Does the government get no grudging recognition for that enabling role?


On occasion the government invests in useful public goods. On other occasions the government fritters away the money or funnels it to the Cronies. When useless offices are created in government how is this promoting the general welfare?

Governments are not very good judges of technological winners and losers. They sometimes back obsolete technology and thereby starve potentially more productive technologies of funds.

How about the Space Shuttle program. The computers aboard the space shuttles launched in the early 21 st century where the epitomy of late 1970s technology. My cell phone had more computing power than the computers aboard STS. Government investment in technology is no guarantee of getting the best or even good technology.

The government also keeps businesses that should be allowed to fail on life support to the detriment of investments in more viable and productive business. You government shuffled hundreds of billions to ailing banks and financial institutions. Did they turn around and re-invest the money here at home in productive enterprises? Apparently not. The economy is still a sick dog and more jobs are being created in China and India than in the U.S.

And so it goes. Government is a mixed bag....

ruveyn



JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

03 Nov 2011, 10:50 am

ruveyn wrote:
.

And so it goes. Government is a mixed bag....

ruveyn


+1


_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


DC
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,477

03 Nov 2011, 11:03 am

ruveyn wrote:

On occasion the government invests in useful public goods. On other occasions the government fritters away the money or funnels it to the Cronies. When useless offices are created in government how is this promoting the general welfare?

Governments are not very good judges of technological winners and losers. They sometimes back obsolete technology and thereby starve potentially more productive technologies of funds.


Granted, but nobody has a crystal ball.

Betamax vs VHS?
HD-DVD vs Bluray?
The dotcom boom and bust?
The housing boom and bust?

It isn't like there is a clear cut case of permanent government cronyism compared to a private sector that never makes mistakes or massive mis-investment.

The French government took a decision to go nuclear for electricity and now generates so much electricity that it has a thriving export electricity market and production costs that are 50% of anywhere else in Europe. Was that a mistake?

Quote:
How about the Space Shuttle program. The computers aboard the space shuttles launched in the early 21 st century where the epitomy of late 1970s technology. My cell phone had more computing power than the computers aboard STS. Government investment in technology is no guarantee of getting the best or even good technology.


Computers in space need to be specially designed with al components radiation hardened. It is impossible to run a processor in a radioactive environment with the gate densities of modern CPU's. The choice of CPU for space mission has nothing to do with government inefficiency or cronyism in fact the only reason we can have computers in space is because governments committed sufficient funds to develop special radiation hardened electronics, the free market would never have made such an investment.

Quote:
The government also keeps businesses that should be allowed to fail on life support to the detriment of investments in more viable and productive business. You government shuffled hundreds of billions to ailing banks and financial institutions. Did they turn around and re-invest the money here at home in productive enterprises? Apparently not. The economy is still a sick dog and more jobs are being created in China and India than in the U.S.

And so it goes. Government is a mixed bag....

ruveyn


How many corporations do you see voluntarily choosing to create jobs in the US instead of making more profit by shifting production to China?

How many corporations do you see off shoring every job they possibly can to lower production costs?

The private sector is a mixed bag...



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

03 Nov 2011, 12:28 pm

DC wrote:

How many corporations do you see off shoring every job they possibly can to lower production costs?

The private sector is a mixed bag...


Most new inventions comes from individuals and small firms with ambitions to become large firms. The enterprising spirit is alive in small businesses and is decidedly lacking in mega corporations which are inherently risk averse. When you have nothing or little, you risk much to get more. When you have a lot you tend to want to keep it that way.

The private sector has always been a mixed bag..... BUT.....all invention eventually comes from private individuals and private groups. The government can jump in later on to make another of their patented bets on a "winner". The market is a better judge than the government. Governments have vested interest in the status quo. They will not produce, or are less likely to produce revolutionary and break through innovations.

ruveyn