Can one tell another he doesn't know God?

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If I have a best friend, who's saved my life, and has always been there for me -- and then I hear from a complete stranger that I, in fact, do not know my best friend -- which of the following conclusions am I most likely to reach, and be right in doing so?

A) The stranger, neither knowing me nor my best friend, is in a bad position from which to judge the existence of the friend I know so well. Therefore, all of the known data being fully considered and weighed, the stranger, for whatever reason, must be incorrect in his assertion.
B) My friend does not exist -- I am insane, because I believe a complete stranger over someone I've known to care about me for years, through thick and thin.

Just a thought. I think it's amazing how well complete strangers know me and my relationship with God -- at least going by their claims to such knowledge.

Allow me to turn a phrase at this point: Stop shoving your irreligion down my throat.

I'm so glad for you that you do not believe. You must be so proud, I'm sure.
But the issue of whether or not you're glad for my having a faith only carries so much weight as far as I'm concerned.

Don't most religions include a doctrine that claiming to know God is tantamount to hubris?

Ragtime I really don't care if you have an imaginary friend or not and I don't care if you wish to gather with other people who have imaginary friends so that you can sing to your imaginary friend.

I don't care if other people want to have a different imaginary friend and they want to chant to their imaginary friend while dancing naked in the rain.

Doesn't bother me one bit, have fun.

But

When you start to insist that other people must also obey the commands of your imaginary friend.
When you insist that schoolchildren must be lied to and told the opinion of your magic friend in science classes.
When you insist that people who do not believe in your imaginary friend are evil and lesser humans.
When you insist that it is ok to murder your children or genitally mutilate them because your imaginary friend told you so.
When you decide to murder people that offend your imaginary friend.
When you insist that you have the right to impose the will of your imaginary friend on to women and tell them what they can and can't do with their own bodies.
When you start flying planes into buildings because your imaginary friend told you to.


I think it is reasonable to object on the grounds that we are talking about a guy with an imaginary friend after all and perhaps we shouldn't take him too seriously...

Ragtime, there are a number of things I would love to shove down your throat, but irreligion isn't one of them. If you're going to cry "religious persecution" at the faintest hint of criticism, don't be surprised if most people think you're a dope.

Oh, and it's not that I think you're insane. I just think that you are a liar.

sense

this tread makes none.

Wow, faith-robbers are really enthusiastic! I'm usually told by atheists that their belief is not something they are passionate about, but I guess I was wrong.

And I didn't realize I was crying. Hmmm, that's weird. So, the people who beat me over the head for years on the PPR forum with -- what tired old phrase? -- yes, you guessed it, "Stop shoving your religion down my throat", I guess they must be the biggest crybabies on WP, correct?

It's amazing. I'm often asked or challenged to defend my faith in the PPR area, and then when I comply, it's always the ol' "Stop shoving!" admonishment from the same people!

So, that's the rule, fellow believers: When we answer questions about our faith, and those who asked say "Stop shoving", they aren't crying. But if we say it to those whose opinions are offered without having been requested, we are crying. Got it.

Ragtime, I meant "crying" in the sense of "crying wolf." I thought of assuming you were trying to troll me, but I suddenly remembered where I was and who I'm talking to.

I answered a question about faith in the context of that faith.

I'm guessing that you are a member of a religion in the judeo-christian tradition, which means that chances are the tenets of your faith - if you are a member of an authoritarian sect - imply that claiming to know the mind of God is blasphemy.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you can, but it's utterly pointless, I've found.

I just get on with my life and let others get on with theirs. If people are open to hear my views on religion and spirituality then I'll share.

No point in trying to wrestle hardcore atheists round, it doesn't work

Don't make generalisations, please. (adressed to whoever it applies)

Ragtime, the problem with your analogy is that you could (1)show this stranger who your friend is, (2)your friend could validate his own existence to this stranger and (3)outside observers can join in to confirm.

Sadly, in the case of religion (1) has never happend and so neither has (2), (3) is unlikely to have much effect as outsider motives might be questioned.

also don't you hate it when you meet someone who claims to know your friend and disagrees with you about what they are like?

Awkward.

Ragtime, you might actually have better luck if you were to try talking candidly and openly about your experience with religion. When you bring it up in an argumentative context, though, you will get argument in turn.

I think Jesus would smile and walk away from this discussion, maybe go walk by the river and marvel at the nice day.

As soon as you stop shoving your religion down ours.

Religion is the socio-political expression of faith, and faith proves nothing. Therefore, religion is much ado about nothing.

And if it wasn't a nice day he'd MAKE it a nice day - cuz he rolls deep like that .

When you say PPR I assume you mean the Politics, Philosophy, and Religion (complete with extra comma) area that is specifically for the debate of politics, philosophy and religion.

Engaging in debate with people who don't agree with you in an area designed for that exact purpose is hardly 'shoving down your throat'.

Here are two questions for you.

1) In the last 6 weeks how many times have atheist strangers knocked at your door, informed you that you were wrong and attempted to leave literature for you to read.

2) How many times in your life have atheist strangers ever done this?


In the last 6 weeks Jehovah's Witnesses have knocked on my door 3 times.

In my entire life the number of times that I have knocked on people's doors to inform that their religious beliefs are irrational is exactly 0. Never done.


So who is doing the shoving again?