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Master_Pedant
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22 Dec 2011, 4:57 pm

ruveyn
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22 Dec 2011, 4:59 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:


One does not have to accept the theory of evolution to be a competent G.P.

ruveyn



Master_Pedant
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22 Dec 2011, 5:11 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:


One does not have to accept the theory of evolution to be a competent G.P.

ruveyn


Tell that to all the Ron Paul sycophants I've met who've expressed incredulity when I told them that "Dr. No" doesn't believe in evolution. They claim that he has to, he's a medical doctor!

As Orwell (the Bearded Irish-Ohioan-Floridan liberal Calvinist, not the British author) sometimes says, a Doctor is a Mechanic of the Body - they don't have to understand the underlying theoretical basis all the time.


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snapcap
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22 Dec 2011, 5:37 pm

Why should Paul believe in evolution?



Jacoby
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22 Dec 2011, 5:42 pm

Who cares what his personal religious beliefs are? It's a free country and he can believe what he wants. It obviously hasn't effect his ability as a doctor and he isn't going to impose his views on the rest of the rest of the population.



Master_Pedant
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22 Dec 2011, 5:48 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Who cares what his personal religious beliefs are? It's a free country and he can believe what he wants. It obviously hasn't effect his ability as a doctor and he isn't going to impose his views on the rest of the rest of the population.


Coupled with his general tendency to dismantle public education, ignorance of biology (with at least some evidence that said ignorance is willful and theologically motivated) could damage science in the US. Although I'm sure his gradually slashing of basic scientific research funding will also do a goodly amount of damage.


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Master_Pedant
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22 Dec 2011, 5:56 pm

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Yes, Ron Paul is very popular among the quack-friendly set, particularly those tending to see a conspiracy between the FDA, FTC, and big pharma to keep them from selling their favorite nostrums. There's good reason for that, given how staunch a supporter of "health freedom" he's been over the years. What a wonderfully Orwellian term! After all, who could be against "health freedom"? If you are, you're against freedom! It's like being against free speech, mom, the flag, and apple pie. In actuality, "health freedom" is nothing more than a clever catch phrase that in effect describes measures that allow quacks the freedom to hawk their wares unfettered by pesky interference from the FDA or FTC. Perhaps the most notorious example of "health freedom" laws that have been passed is the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA). This is a law that emasculated the FDA in its ability to protect the public from dangerous supplements by reclassifying supplements as "food" or "nutrition" rather than drugs. Never mind that manufacturers of many supplements make blatantly drug-like claims for their products. The FDA can't do anything about it, as long as the claims are carefully worded so as not to suggest that the product or ingredient is "intended for prevention or treatment of disease." Since the DSHEA, it's been more or less the wild, wild West out there as far as supplements go. Not surprisingly, Ron Paul is very much a supporter of this law, opposing any attempts to weaken its protections for the supplement industry's ability to make dubious health claims for its products.

But that's not all. Ron Paul is also the sponsor of the Foods Are Not Drugs Act (also known as the Consumer Health Free Speech Act), which would add the six words "other than foods, including dietary supplements'' to the statutory definition of "drug,'' allowing food and dietary supplement producers even wider latitude to make drug claims for supplements than they have now--as if the DSHEA didn't provide wide enough latitude already.


http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/ ... nabler.php


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Jacoby
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22 Dec 2011, 6:01 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Who cares what his personal religious beliefs are? It's a free country and he can believe what he wants. It obviously hasn't effect his ability as a doctor and he isn't going to impose his views on the rest of the rest of the population.


Coupled with his general tendency to dismantle public education, ignorance of biology (with at least some evidence that said ignorance is willful and theologically motivated) could damage science in the US. Although I'm sure his gradually slashing of basic scientific research funding will also do a goodly amount of damage.


How will he dismantle public education? Do you think things like "No Child Left Behind" and whatever else the Department Of Education does actually helps education in this country? He wants to return that responsibility to states, not impose from a federal level. I'm not sure what you are referring to here.



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22 Dec 2011, 6:23 pm

Jacoby wrote:

How will he dismantle public education? Do you think things like "No Child Left Behind" and whatever else the Department Of Education does actually helps education in this country? He wants to return that responsibility to states, not impose from a federal level. I'm not sure what you are referring to here.


Even given the highly decentralized nature of US public education, you don't abolish a department without quite a few systemic shocks.Tax initiatives that make it easier or even incentive the "opting out" of public schools also damages the system.


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22 Dec 2011, 7:12 pm

Yes, the DoE is doing a wonderful job.

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Vexcalibur
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22 Dec 2011, 7:22 pm

Quote:
Yes, Ron Paul is very popular among the quack-friendly set, particularly those tending to see a conspiracy between the FDA, FTC, and big pharma to keep them from selling their favorite nostrums. There's good reason for that, given how staunch a supporter of "health freedom" he's been over the years. What a wonderfully Orwellian term! After all, who could be against "health freedom"? If you are, you're against freedom! It's like being against free speech, mom, the flag, and apple pie. In actuality, "health freedom" is nothing more than a clever catch phrase that in effect describes measures that allow quacks the freedom to hawk their wares unfettered by pesky interference from the FDA or FTC. Perhaps the most notorious example of "health freedom" laws that have been passed is the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA). This is a law that emasculated the FDA in its ability to protect the public from dangerous supplements by reclassifying supplements as "food" or "nutrition" rather than drugs. Never mind that manufacturers of many supplements make blatantly drug-like claims for their products. The FDA can't do anything about it, as long as the claims are carefully worded so as not to suggest that the product or ingredient is "intended for prevention or treatment of disease." Since the DSHEA, it's been more or less the wild, wild West out there as far as supplements go. Not surprisingly, Ron Paul is very much a supporter of this law, opposing any attempts to weaken its protections for the supplement industry's ability to make dubious health claims for its products.

But that's not all. Ron Paul is also the sponsor of the Foods Are Not Drugs Act (also known as the Consumer Health Free Speech Act), which would add the six words "other than foods, including dietary supplements'' to the statutory definition of "drug,'' allowing food and dietary supplement producers even wider latitude to make drug claims for supplements than they have now--as if the DSHEA didn't provide wide enough latitude already. Perhaps Dr. Paul's most notorious contribution to "health freedom" comes in his sponsorship of the Health Freedom Protection Act, which he introduced with a flourish of conspiracy-mongering:
Deal breaker for me. Quacks are monsters and anyone that associates with their views like this deserves no respect. Curse Paul.


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22 Dec 2011, 7:23 pm

If he's a doctor, he should know that there are differences in races, so why isn't he racist?



Vexcalibur
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22 Dec 2011, 7:26 pm

snapcap wrote:
If he's a doctor, he should know that there are differences in races, so why isn't he racist?

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22 Dec 2011, 7:29 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
snapcap wrote:
If he's a doctor, he should know that there are differences in races, so why isn't he racist?

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Jacoby
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22 Dec 2011, 7:29 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Jacoby wrote:

How will he dismantle public education? Do you think things like "No Child Left Behind" and whatever else the Department Of Education does actually helps education in this country? He wants to return that responsibility to states, not impose from a federal level. I'm not sure what you are referring to here.


Even given the highly decentralized nature of US public education, you don't abolish a department without quite a few systemic shocks.Tax initiatives that make it easier or even incentive the "opting out" of public schools also damages the system.


I honestly don't believe getting rid of the DoE would cause too much of a systemic shock to education in this country. It's just a tremendous waste of money and unnecessary bureaucracy. Most people on both sides of the aisle deeply resent the the "No Child Left Behind" act which greatly increased to role of the DoE.

Remember, it was created back during the Jimmy Carter administration. As with any department Ron would aim to close, all truly necessary functions would be transferred to another department.

As for making it easier to "opt out" of public education, it's merely recognizing the reality of education in this country. Public schools in this country are beyond horrible in many parts of this country, particularly poorer inner city schools. I got to experience first hand what a wonderful education the state provides our inner cities, I could only dream of been able to attend a private school. I'm not even from a place like Mississippi, I'm from the birthplace of progressive movement in America, I can't even imagine what public education is like in places like Mississippi.



Last edited by Jacoby on 22 Dec 2011, 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ruveyn
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22 Dec 2011, 7:48 pm

snapcap wrote:
Why should Paul believe in evolution?


Because it is well supported by physical and biological evidence. There is no doubt that life on this planet started billions of years ago and was originally very simple single cell life.

ruveyn