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Why I am a Democrat

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WilliamWDelaney
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12 Jan 2012, 12:59 pm

NathanealWest wrote:
I predict that he will come back and say that all of the money you're making off of bonds is bad because of FORCE. :lol:
The thing is, it would be just as legitimate to say that what I get off my stocks is bad because of "corporate greed" and how they kill the small business man, abuse their employees and dump toxic waste. The thing is, if I didn't have my money invested in a company that I know is good and that I know has staying power, a bad one would come along and muscle it out of the market.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2012, 12:59 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
]If you wanted to, you could make the same claim about the corporation that owns KFC,


The Big Difference. I do not have to do business with KFC. On the other hand, the Government has a lien on my salary and dividends. They have guns, jails and handcuffs. KFC does not.

ruveyn



WilliamWDelaney
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12 Jan 2012, 1:07 pm

ruveyn wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
]If you wanted to, you could make the same claim about the corporation that owns KFC,


The Big Difference. I do not have to do business with KFC.
Thanks to the American government, you don't.

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On the other hand, the Government has a lien on my salary and dividends.
Only as long as you deal in American coinage, which nobody forces you to do.

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They have guns, jails and handcuffs. KFC does not.
Thanks to the government, they don't. Actually, if we followed the British concept of law enforcement, the government wouldn't have very many guns, either.



NathanealWest
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12 Jan 2012, 1:27 pm

How do you feel about debtors prisons, ruveyn?



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2012, 1:35 pm

NathanealWest wrote:
How do you feel about debtors prisons, ruveyn?


Not very useful. It might pay to provide real work for debtors to due to help pay off their debts. Private industry could do this or the government. The best deal of all is not to encourage people to go into debt beyond their ability to repay. Easy home loans, for example, turned out to be a trap when the housing bubble burst. No bank should be permitted to lend money beyond the borrowers reasonable ability to repay the loan.

Perhaps a society of co-signers could pay off the loans within reasonable limits and then provide work for the debtors to do to repay the co-signers. That way the original lenders are repaid, the debtors get a chance to work of their debt or a part of it and the co-signers can get good labor fairly inexpensively.

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12 Jan 2012, 1:44 pm

I don't mean how do you feel about them being applied in the here and now. I mean how do you feel that businesses would go and initiate such force upon people who owed them money. Doesn't the historical fact contradict everything that you're feeling about government and it's monopoly on force?



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2012, 1:46 pm

NathanealWest wrote:
I don't mean how do you feel about them being applied in the here and now. I mean how do you feel that businesses would go and initiate such force upon people who owed them money. Doesn't the historical fact contradict everything that you're feeling about government and it's monopoly on force?


It would not be force. If a person refuses to seek ways of repaying (at least in part) he can be labeled a bankrupt and never be able to borrow money again. This could mean starvation for him and his family.

I oppose slavery on principle.

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WilliamWDelaney
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12 Jan 2012, 1:48 pm

ruveyn wrote:
No bank should be permitted to lend money beyond the borrowers reasonable ability to repay the loan.
The thing is, imposing those kinds of regulations costs MONEY. It's not something that you can sign into law and say, "Domini, domini, domini, you're all honest now." Those laws have to be enforced. Taxpayer money pays for that.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2012, 1:50 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
No bank should be permitted to lend money beyond the borrowers reasonable ability to repay the loan.
The thing is, imposing those kinds of regulations costs MONEY. It's not something that you can sign into law and say, "Domini, domini, domini, you're all honest now." Those laws have to be enforced. Taxpayer money pays for that.


That is a better use for taxpayer money than handouts to deadbeat individuals and corporations.

If you want law and order, you have to pay for it. We all do. That is the proper use of taxes. Better that than buttering up to the Cronies.

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Vexcalibur
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12 Jan 2012, 1:51 pm

ruveyn is advocating to use tax payer money on something?


_________________
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ruveyn
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12 Jan 2012, 1:52 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
ruveyn is advocating to use tax payer money on something?


For its proper end. To maintain peace and order in the society and protect life and property from predators and criminals. Can you think of a better use for tax money?:

ruveyn



NathanealWest
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12 Jan 2012, 1:58 pm

I don't see how debtors prisons from centuries ago could have possibly been on the ball with libertarian ideology.

How do you feel about how coal mining companies used to pay miners in scrip that could only be redeemed at the company store?



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2012, 2:00 pm

NathanealWest wrote:
I don't see how debtors prisons from centuries ago could have possibly been on the ball with libertarian ideology.

How do you feel about how coal mining companies used to pay miners in scrip that could only be redeemed at the company store?


At best a bad deal and at worst a swindle. Something like that would be illegal now. All labor must be paid for in legal tender.

ruveyn



WilliamWDelaney
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12 Jan 2012, 2:03 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
ruveyn is advocating to use tax payer money on something?


For its proper end. To maintain peace and order in the society and protect life and property from predators and criminals. Can you think of a better use for tax money?:
I can think of other good ones, such as cancer research, space exploration, feeding starving children in Africa, saving the whales, subsidizing our education, maintaining our roads, etc..

I'm just not sold on the idea that you have the inherent right to go through life and never have any kind of obligation toward society. You owe something to society by virtue of the fact that you live on our soil rather in some military dictatorship where you no freedom at all. Nobody forces you to use our coinage, nobody forces you to walk on our sidewalks, and nobody is forcing you to remain within the borders our military defends.

The city I live in requires me to recycle my garbage. I am not obligated to live in this city, and I could actually sell this residence for a very good price. There are people willing to pay very good money to be able to live where I am right now, and I don't see any chains or fences holding me here.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2012, 2:32 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
I can think of other good ones, such as cancer research, space exploration, feeding starving children in Africa, saving the whales, subsidizing our education, maintaining our roads, etc..



A cure for cancer and keeping the roads up. That makes some sense. But what the hell are African children and whales to me? What am I to them? Nothing and Nothing.

What have the African children and the whales done for me and my family lately?

ruveyn



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12 Jan 2012, 2:38 pm

ruveyn wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
I can think of other good ones, such as cancer research, space exploration, feeding starving children in Africa, saving the whales, subsidizing our education, maintaining our roads, etc..



A cure for cancer and keeping the roads up. That makes some sense. But what the hell are African children and whales to me? What am I to them? Nothing and Nothing.

What have the African children and the whales done for me and my family lately?

ruveyn


Look into their eyes, then try telling us you don't have a heart! :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer