Reincarnation.

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Cornflake
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31 Jan 2012, 8:12 pm

Please keep personal insults off the forums - disguised or not.
Thanks.

Quote:

The following activities are unacceptable on WrongPlanet:

(...)

2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt73833.html

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Fnord
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31 Jan 2012, 8:19 pm

Thanx for the reminder, CF. Dog knows I needed it.

Fnord
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31 Jan 2012, 8:24 pm

Saadi wrote:

Fnord wrote:

silenthawk wrote:

What do you guys think of reincarnation? I believe in it. I believe that the soul can't die it just goes to another new being. What do you guys think?

a. There exists no valid empirical evidence to support any claims that favor reincarnation.
b. Absence of evidence, while not evidence of absence, is sufficient cause for reasonable doubt.
: : It is reasonable to doubt the existence of reincarnation.

Conversely, belief in reincarnation is unreasonable.

QED

Lame

How so, sir?

The syllogism was of the proper form, the premises are well-founded, the proposition conflates correctly from the premises, there are no fallacies of reasoning, and even the converse of the proposition may be readily derived from the premises themselves.

Please explain.

Thank you.

MarsCoban
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31 Jan 2012, 9:01 pm

Cornflake wrote:

Please keep personal insults off the forums - disguised or not.
Thanks.

Quote:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt73833.html

Alright alright. Fnord, your view reminds me of an exsiccated cow paddy. I hope it at least makes decent manure.

:bounce:

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Fnord
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31 Jan 2012, 9:04 pm

MarsCoban wrote:

Cornflake wrote:

Please keep personal insults off the forums - disguised or not.
Thanks.

Quote:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt73833.html

Alright alright. Fnord, your view reminds me of an exsiccated cow paddy. I hope it at least makes decent manure. :bounce:

Your opinion is irrelevant, immaterial, and inconsequential.

Please try again.

MarsCoban
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31 Jan 2012, 10:00 pm

Fnord wrote:

MarsCoban wrote:

Cornflake wrote:

Please keep personal insults off the forums - disguised or not.
Thanks.

Quote:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt73833.html

Alright alright. Fnord, your view reminds me of an exsiccated cow paddy. I hope it at least makes decent manure. :bounce:

Your opinion is irrelevant, immaterial, and inconsequential.

Please try again.

And yet I have the right to it.

I both dismissed your stale fart of a view and addressed the topic. Your predictability is rather tiring, sir. Really, why do you even come into these types of threads? Everyone who posts and/or reads regularly in PPR already knows perfectly well what you're going to say. "There is no empirical evidence to support..." blah blah blah. Which everyone already knows. You add nothing. Can't a man dream? At the very least I think you will concede that the idea of reincarnation is an entertaining one, one that can lead to interesting discussion? I mean, why be such a wet blanket?

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

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MarsCoban
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31 Jan 2012, 10:08 pm

graywyvern wrote:

reincarnation only makes sense in a world without population growth. in 10,000 BC there were only 1 million humans on earth.

today there is a total of 7,000 times that number. where did all the extra souls come from?

Perhaps from other regions of the Universe?

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Fnord
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01 Feb 2012, 12:01 am

MarsCoban wrote:

And yet I have the right to it.

While you have the right to your own opinion, you do not have the right to your own facts.

MarsCoban wrote:

I both dismissed your stale fart of a view and addressed the topic.

That was no dismissal. It was not even a rebuttal.

MarsCoban wrote:

Your predictability is rather tiring, sir. Really, why do you even come into these types of threads?

In the hope that people will see how unreasonable it is to believe in unprovable fantasies.

MarsCoban wrote:

Everyone who posts and/or reads regularly in PPR already knows perfectly well what you're going to say. "There is no empirical evidence to support..." blah blah blah. Which everyone already knows.

Yet they still post their fantasies. Why not just present some valid empirical evidence to support claims that favor reincarnation instead?

MarsCoban wrote:

You add nothing.

I add reason and a critical perspective. I also add incentive for people to provide empirical evidence fr their claims.

MarsCoban wrote:

Can't a man dream?

Dreams are for those who sleep through life. I prefer waking reality.

MarsCoban wrote:

At the very least I think you will concede that the idea of reincarnation is an entertaining one...

Only in fantasy, fiction and games.

MarsCoban wrote:

... one that can lead to interesting discussion?

To no useful purpose.

MarsCoban wrote:

I mean, why be such a wet blanket?

To invite empirical proof of fantastic claims. Besides, I have the right to it.

MarsCoban wrote:

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

While fantasy can be entertaining, only reality is acceptable.

You seem to feel threatened by discordant perspectives, or at least my insistence upon proof of claim. If you are not, then why not simply ignore me?

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abacacus
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01 Feb 2012, 12:41 am

If this discussion has no useful purpose why are you a part of it?

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donnie_darko
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01 Feb 2012, 2:44 am

Fnord wrote:

silenthawk wrote:

What do you guys think of reincarnation? I believe in it. I believe that the soul can't die it just goes to another new being. What do you guys think?

Why do self-styled rationalists always say 'empirical'? What does that even mean anyways?
b. So in other words "absence of evidence, while not evidence of absence, is not .. wait, yes it is evidence of absence"

I'd say it's reasonable to doubt reincarnation, I have my doubts myself, but i wouldn't say it's unreasonable to believe in it, or at least think it's possible.

donnie_darko
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01 Feb 2012, 2:46 am

graywyvern wrote:

reincarnation only makes sense in a world without population growth. in 10,000 BC there were only 1 million humans on earth.

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/history ... growth.htm

today there is a total of 7,000 times that number. where did all the extra souls come from?

if you add higher animals the numbers get better but that makes most of the people alive today the beneficiaries of those animals' aspirations, & i fail to see how a mouse, for instance, can merit coming back as anything else through sheer good choosing.

the alternative would be for souls to come into existence but be unable to cease existence. but this seems like a kind of process invented conceptually merely because of a lack of a better explanation, & i don't see what would be the purpose of it on a finite planet.

I disagree about the population argument against reincarnation. What about other planets? What if reincarnation doesn't always follow linear time? Like say you had 'past' lives that actually took place in the chronological future?

auntblabby
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01 Feb 2012, 2:48 am

MarsCoban wrote:

graywyvern wrote:

Perhaps from other regions of the Universe?

from reading a little Rumi-

I died as a mineral and became a plant;
I died as a plant and rose to animal;
I died as animal and I was a man...

one may believe that upward-order transmigration/conglomeration-and-matriculation of lower spiritual forms into higher spiritual forms has supplied all 7+billion of our present earth-burdening crowds. but the subject of transmigration is controversial among some new-age types.

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01 Feb 2012, 2:58 am

donnie_darko wrote:

graywyvern wrote:

reincarnation only makes sense in a world without population growth. in 10,000 BC there were only 1 million humans on earth.

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/history ... growth.htm

today there is a total of 7,000 times that number. where did all the extra souls come from?
if you add higher animals the numbers get better but that makes most of the people alive today the beneficiaries of those animals' aspirations, & i fail to see how a mouse, for instance, can merit coming back as anything else through sheer good choosing. the alternative would be for souls to come into existence but be unable to cease existence. but this seems like a kind of process invented conceptually merely because of a lack of a better explanation, & i don't see what would be the purpose of it on a finite planet.

the late robert monroe [among many other new-agers] believed that above earth 3d reality, there is no time as humans would experience it. thus, he believed that all of our incarnations are [in effect, above 3d reality] simultaneous, at least in his own case where he said that he was waiting for the rest of his 160-odd incarnations to catch up and reunite with him in the eternal now of heaven. this alternate way of looking at it [which removes transmigration as a possible reason] would sidestep any quibbles about population growth. he wrote lots of mind-bending stuff in his 3 books.

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01 Feb 2012, 4:23 am

I'm am frankly curious if reincarnation might only involve whatever core spark of consciousness we have way deep down. If maybe very little or none of our ego or current identity, thought patterns, knowledge, or even emotions really survives.

Another way I look at this is a person may pass on their DNA to the next generation. That doesn't mean they keep living, but some of the core building blocks of that person are continuing on in another body. Also slightly altered by combining with another strain.

I wonder if what really might continue on for the mind is a kind of essential core consciousness material that gives rise to a full mind within a brain.

However like DNA perhaps this innate force of consciousness can grow or change and evolve each time it becomes part of a new life.

auntblabby
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01 Feb 2012, 5:07 am

VIDEODROME wrote:

that is sorta like what i remember carl sagan saying about hinduism. but here's a question- what would be the purpose of going through all the trouble of gaining knowledge, if none of it is to be retained someplace [in the akashic records, maybe]? just curious.

donnie_darko
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01 Feb 2012, 7:30 am

VIDEODROME wrote:

This is what I think. essentially, you continue to exist, but as a completely different being/person with likely very different beliefs, opinions, ethics, and maybe even not the same sex or species or even planet.

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