Should the Government Compete with the Private Sector?

Page 1 of 2 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

NeantHumain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,837
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

21 Feb 2012, 11:42 pm

In the United States, personal income tax season is upon us, so it is the perfect moment to wonder whether the government should compete in something the private sector can—and already does—do: prepare tax returns. The government can compete with businesses like Intuit and H&R Block by prefilling tax returns and asking taxpayers simply to review and correct them, simplifying the tax code, and making electronic filing easier without a dependency on an "e-file" intermediary. Apparently this year the IRS does have "Free File Fillable Forms," which provide rudimentary electronic filing for free (for any adjusted annual gross income). Regardless, developing tax-return software and running tax-consulting businesses employs thousands of Americans who'd risk losing their jobs and being put out of business if the government changed its policies to make their purpose redundant. In fact, companies in this line of business lobby against such reforms for just these reasons.

A related question: Should the government make preparing tax returns harder to stimulate jobs in the private sector for tax-preparation services?



Burzum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,205

22 Feb 2012, 12:34 am

There is no competition when government competes in the private sector. The government has taxes on its side, it can always, always undercut its competitors. And if it does not cheat by using tax income, then what is the point? It would essentially be just another private business.

Quote:
A related question: Should the government make preparing tax returns harder to stimulate jobs in the private sector for tax-preparation services?

Broken window fallacy.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,740
Location: the island of defective toy santas

22 Feb 2012, 1:27 am

IMHO, the gov't should do what the private sector is unwilling or incapable of doing. health care is a prime example of the private sector dropping the ball. around the world, gov'ts have proven to be the only realworld means to extend health coverage to all citizens, as the private health care sector by itself can't seem to avoid pricing most people out of their services, judging by the number of medical debt-related bankruptcies in this country.



Burzum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,205

22 Feb 2012, 1:36 am

auntblabby wrote:
private health care sector by itself can't seem to avoid pricing most people out of their services, judging by the number of medical debt-related bankruptcies in this country.

You shouldn't conflate private and free market. Healthcare in America is private, but not free market.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,740
Location: the island of defective toy santas

22 Feb 2012, 3:15 am

Burzum wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
private health care sector by itself can't seem to avoid pricing most people out of their services, judging by the number of medical debt-related bankruptcies in this country.

You shouldn't conflate private and free market. Healthcare in America is private, but not free market.

then kindly tell me how the free market would make for universally affordable primary health care? malpractice/tort reform will get us only partway there, there needs to be something else to take us all the way. just telling the working class to "get rich or die trying" won't cut it.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

22 Feb 2012, 9:06 am

auntblabby wrote:
Burzum wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
private health care sector by itself can't seem to avoid pricing most people out of their services, judging by the number of medical debt-related bankruptcies in this country.

You shouldn't conflate private and free market. Healthcare in America is private, but not free market.

then kindly tell me how the free market would make for universally affordable primary health care? malpractice/tort reform will get us only partway there, there needs to be something else to take us all the way. just telling the working class to "get rich or die trying" won't cut it.

Yea. Literally die if you can't afford healthcare.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

22 Feb 2012, 9:11 am

Burzum wrote:
There is no competition when government competes in the private sector. The government has taxes on its side, it can always, always undercut its competitors. And if it does not cheat by using tax income, then what is the point? It would essentially be just another private business.

Quote:
A related question: Should the government make preparing tax returns harder to stimulate jobs in the private sector for tax-preparation services?

Broken window fallacy.


Von Mises Institute fake-fact regurgitation fallacy.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

22 Feb 2012, 9:15 am

NeantHumain wrote:
In the United States, personal income tax season is upon us, so it is the perfect moment to wonder whether the government should compete in something the private sector can—and already does—do: prepare tax returns.


People who work for the government are generally incompetent. Even if this were not the case do you expect a government creature to try to find the best tax breaks for a client?

ruveyn



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

22 Feb 2012, 9:24 am

There should be no income tax. Problem solved.



Burzum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,205

22 Feb 2012, 3:05 pm

marshall wrote:
Von Mises Institute fake-fact regurgitation fallacy.

By golly, your troll post has certainly got me cornered. :wink:



Burzum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,205

22 Feb 2012, 3:25 pm

auntblabby wrote:
then kindly tell me how the free market would make for universally affordable primary health care? malpractice/tort reform will get us only partway there, there needs to be something else to take us all the way. just telling the working class to "get rich or die trying" won't cut it.

You're making the assumption that the working class would not be able to afford healthcare in a free market. In your opinion, why is healthcare so expensive in the USA?



Declension
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,807

22 Feb 2012, 4:07 pm

I sort of think that American libertarians are useful idiots. They will only ever be able to effect changes that the corporations allow. So they will remove the last vestiges of public services that benefit the masses, but they will never be able to stop the alliance between corporations and the state.

They will destroy the welfare state for poor people, but they can never destroy the welfare state for "too big to fail" corporations.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,740
Location: the island of defective toy santas

23 Feb 2012, 12:26 am

Declension wrote:
I sort of think that American libertarians are useful idiots. They will only ever be able to effect changes that the corporations allow. So they will remove the last vestiges of public services that benefit the masses, but they will never be able to stop the alliance between corporations and the state. They will destroy the welfare state for poor people, but they can never destroy the welfare state for "too big to fail" corporations.

QFT+!



LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,402

23 Feb 2012, 12:36 am

The government can compete with private companies if and when there are no other private companies in a given market - for example, in many markets there is only ONE health insurance company, so that company can jack up its prices, pick and choose the individuals least likely to get sick, and provide terrible service and terrible coverage. A government agency undercutting a company like that would be exactly what the market needs.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,740
Location: the island of defective toy santas

23 Feb 2012, 1:06 am

Burzum wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
then kindly tell me how the free market would make for universally affordable primary health care? malpractice/tort reform will get us only partway there, there needs to be something else to take us all the way. just telling the working class to "get rich or die trying" won't cut it.

You're making the assumption that the working class would not be able to afford healthcare in a free market. In your opinion, why is healthcare so expensive in the USA?

the working class [of which i and everybody else i know is a part] can't afford health care RIGHT NOW! there is no reason to believe that total deregulation of health care will make the insurance companies stop gouging and/or cherry-picking their clients. there is no reason to believe that hospitals will [on their own good will] stop charging $10 per aspirin tablet or cotton ball. there is no reason to believe that ambulances will stop charging people $1k+ per house call unless gov't steps in. there is no reason to believe that basic health insurance premiums that actually cover something useful, will cost any less than the $500 per month average they now cost [for a middle-aged person with pre-existing conditions like myself], unless global rating is mandated by gov't [with local rating deep-sixed for good]- there aren't enough people of good will in positions of influence to insure that any of these things will ever change for the better, short of a progressive gov't to smack some high rollers' heads together to get some decent and humane behavior from the insurance and hospital corporations. pure untrammeled capitalism is hell on earth for people who aren't themselves capitalists. the profit motive is KILLING 99% OF US! "rent collection" at all levels of our bloated health care bureaucracy is bleeding us 99%ers dry. there is no reason there has to be 1500 different money-sucking health insurance bureaucracies nationwide. NO OTHER COUNTRY does it in this most inefficient way! NO OTHER COUNTRY has our bass-akward excess of specialists but shortage of GPs. there needs to be more nurses and less specialists. more feet on the ground and less up in the executive suites, and if it takes uncle sam to make this happen, then so be it.

(clicky!) in many states our infant mortality rates are no better than the 3rd world!

the right wing here has never had any constructive response to this problem, but only to blame the poor for everything. perhaps because of his working-class roots, nixon [!] was the only republican president who even tried to do something to fix this problem, but his repub fellows in the congress shot their own president down. the high and mighty "it could never happen to me" types here, haughtily say that the working poor are disposable, "the poor ye shall always have with thee," etc. but just wait until that arrogance bites them in the tushy when they catch TB from some untreated working class person who fixes their car or does their yard work, directly because they voted for right wing pols who happen to be philosophically opposed to anything which helps the working class stay healthy because "they're just disposable slobs" who aren't making any money for you and me, aren't they? :roll:



MagicToenail
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 401

23 Feb 2012, 9:12 am

Don't they already do with the U.S. Postal service verses UPS? Not every one has a UPS office or pick up place nearby, particularly in rural areas. Unfortunately, the USPS is losing money and will be closing many of it's rural offices. Too bad in these times of austerity, the USPS in unlikely to be subsidized. It really does provide a valuable service.